Star Wars: The Last Jedi discussion thread(Warning: Spoilers!) (1 Viewer)

[Bob_S.]

In fairness, Disney is not necessarily making these movies primarily to please the old fans. Also that Han, Luke and Leia can't live forever. I get that it can be tough to see Han, Luke and inevitably Leia die in such an short time frame (though had real life not intervened, I believe Leia would have lived on).

Don't forget that Luke isn't really gone. I imagine it's highly likely we'll see him again in IX.

But Disney knew old fans have been waiting decades to see Han, Luke and Leia together again. Did they really think most fans would be ok with killing each one off? I certainly wasn't looking forward to that. My son is part of their target audience and he was pissed that they killed off Luke. And yes, Luke's storyline is done. He may show up as a force ghost in the next movie but no more adventures after this movie.

 

[WillG]

But Disney knew old fans have been waiting decades to see Han, Luke and Leia together again. Did they really think most fans would be ok with killing each one off? I certainly wasn't looking forward to that. My son is part of their target audience and he was pissed that they killed off Luke.

I understand how you feel, I like these characters too, but the truth is that Disney doesn't owe anyone anything. They could have decided not to include any of the OT core characters at all in this new trilogy.

There really seems to be a real sense of entitlement among a good portion of the fanbase. People got very mad at TLJ because some of the plot revealations didn't match up with what they felt they were promised. Personally while I had criticisms of the movie they had nothing to do with anything I felt I was owed and didn't get (Rey not being a descendant of a core OT character, Luke's story, lack of Snoke backstory seeming to be the biggest sticking points)

 

[Johnny Angell]

I think that's absolutely true. But in the case of TLJ, I think there is some surprisingly strong competition out there -- Jumanji is expected to overtake TLJ as the #1 at the box office this weekend, which is incredible. In the year 2017, now 2018, that simply doesn't happen in the business anymore -- films don't have legs, and films don't open up not at number one and then have the opportunity to ascend there, not anymore. Sony had an absolute bomb when they released Passengers in the exact same slot last year -- but I thought that was more about the folly of releasing a sci-fi space movie five days after Rogue One. I haven't seen it yet, but it's great counter-programming, so it proves that other things can co-exist with Star Wars at the box office. Insidious is doing pretty well. Expect the Liam Neeson January action movie that's opening in a week to do good business, as his winter action films routinely do. There are a lot more mainstream choices that are finding audiences right now compared to when TFA opened up.

I know I harp on price a lot, and maybe this is a unique quirk of the NYC area, but when TFA came out, the IMAX 3D tickets were about $19. For TLJ, they are $27. I saw TFA six times in theaters and I won't see TLJ that many times simply because of the money. If prices have gone up like that in other areas, that could have an effect too.

In Little Rock we saw The Darkest Hour on a Tuesday (discount day) and for the two of us it was less than $12.

 

[Bob_S.]

I understand how you feel, I like these characters too, but the truth is that Disney doesn't owe anyone anything. They could have decided not to include any of the OT core characters at all in this new trilogy.

There really seems to be a real sense of entitlement among a good portion of the fanbase. People got very mad at TLJ because some of the plot revealations didn't match up with what they felt they were promised. Personally while I had criticisms of the movie they had nothing to do with anything I felt I was owed and didn't get (Rey not being a descendant of a core OT character, Luke's story, lack of Snoke backstory seeming to be the biggest sticking points)

I agree that Disney doesn't owe us anything. They can do whatever they want. But the fact is the original fan base made the Star Wars franchise as profitable as it is. That's why Disney bought it. If they want to alienate part of the fan base then prepare lose some money. Personally, if I had the choice between seeing my heroes die on film or not having them in the movies at all, I'd take the latter. I'll probably see Solo when it comes out (if I like the trailers) and any Star Wars movie that takes place before the OT but I have zero interest in this current trilogy.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I'm part of the original fan base so I think some of us are okay with what Disney is doing with the franchise. With that said, I think I'm done with Star Wars films after the last film of this trilogy. Of course, if I'm still around, I reserve the right to change my mind as we get closer to release dates for the next trilogy of films. I will definitely watch Solo film, but I'm getting a little too long in the tooth for such films.

 

[Dave Moritz]

Just thought this was interesting!

 

[Tim Glover]

That was really awesome Dave. Thx for sharing that.

 

[BobO'Link]

First:

I've only read the thread up through page 2 so I may be repeating some (lots) of stuff, but this first post will be brief.

I took my grandkids (ages 7, 11, & 14) to see this yesterday. The last day to see it here. A first time viewing for all of us.

Oh Chewie, porgs are friends not food.

Now... *Yes* - they *are* food! I very much wanted, and expected, Chewie to take a big bite before they cut away!

Overall, we were underwhelmed by this effort. It was much better than TFA and Episodes 1, 2, and 3, but still lacking and *far* too long. Too much back story and wasted time on the island with Luke that didn't truly amount to much.

Finn can now pilot a ship? O..K...

The maintenance worker is also a pilot and can knock him out of the way with precision flying? O..K...

Laura Dern was horrible...

Luke tossing the light sabre off the cliff? Priceless!

More to come...

 

[BobO'Link]

...I mean, THE FORCE AWAKENS was so much better, and it was basically a remake of Episode IV.

Ron, I was with you 100% until that statement. In spite of the many issues I have with TLJ I still have to rank it slightly above TFA for no other reason than TFA was a half-baked remake of Star Wars (Episode IV for you people who know no better) and had a modicum of originality on display.

Since people have been ranking them, here's mine:

1. Star Wars (aka A New Hope)
2. The Empire Strikes Back
3. Return of the Jedi
4. The Last Jedi
5. Rogue One
6. Revenge of the Sith
7. The Force Awakens
8. Attack of the Clones
9. The Phantom Menace

And that's in spite of a huge dislike of Ewoks and the feeling that they pretty much ruined the ending of Return...

 

[Tino]

I thought TFA was better than TLJ in every way. And I liked TLJ a lot.

 

[TravisR]

Finn can now pilot a ship? O..K...

I assume that piloting a starship in the Star Wars galaxy is the equivalent of driving a car in our world. The truly talented (Anakin Skywalker or Han Solo or Poe Dameron) are great pilots but most other people have no problem flying a ship from planet to planet.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I assume that piloting a starship in the Star Wars galaxy is the equivalent of driving a car in our world. The truly talented (Anakin Skywalker or Han Solo or Poe Dameron) are great pilots but most other people have no problem flying a ship from planet to planet.

In high school, I was able to take an aviation course, and I can report that flying a small Cessna plane is actually far easier than flying Microsoft Flight Simulator. I have no problem believing a novice could pilot such a craft in these films, particularly when they are the equivalent of cars in the Star Wars universe.

 

[BobO'Link]

Some observations/comments:

Far too much Disney type humor. I absolutely do not like BB8 for that very reason. It's the Disneyfied version of R2D2 and C3PO combined. I see this just getting worse as the series/films progress.

They just about lost me completely with the "modernistic" talk in the opening scene. "Can you hear me?" "Can you hear me?" and the absolutely lame responses. I thought I was watching a Verizon commercial. Star Wars does *not* use anything remotely like "current jargon" or "modern" slang. This will make the film feel dated within a few years.

CGI Snoke looked as fake as a $3 bill. Absolutely unconvincing and poorly executed (no pun intended - I thought the actual execution was interestingly done).

Bombers... in space... where there's no gravity... riiiiiight... Interesting ship design but otherwise a rather dumb scene.

The entire time that Porg was jumping on the lightsabre firing button I was thinking "Activate! Activate! Activate!"

The casino and subsequent race on the animals was pretty superfluous. I didn't like the Del Toro character at all. A red herring that didn't work well. And they fly off to another planet, totally undetected by anyone, hoping to make it back before the Empire takes out the Rebel fleet? Give me a break! It truly felt like the pod race from Episode 1. Only there for the "action" and humor and to stretch the run time. Absolutely not needed.

Why didn't the Empire fleet just send waves of fighters to the *front* of the Rebel cruiser? If Fynn and co. can leave, go to another planet, and catch up when they return, surely a fighter can catch the cruiser.

And just why did they need the "Rose" character? She didn't work. But then neither does Fynn and they've had him for 2 movies.

The Luke subplot was just poorly done. He was made into a curmudgeon with absolutely no good explanation as to why. I constantly felt like the island scenes were supposed to be the twin to Luke and Yoda's stint on Dagobah. It wasn't anywhere close. And Luke dies after the projection battle. Why didn't he just show up and do it in person? OK... I get it... if he did show up in person there'd be an easy back way out and Rey wouldn't have an excuse to use the force to get the rocks out of the way and save everyone. But why didn't Leia just do it herself? After all, she zipped through space handily enough...

Kylo Ren is still the petulant child. He's not threatening. He's not scary. He's not worth the screen time. In spite of that, I wanted Kylo and Rey to join forces and take over the galaxy. Good or bad - just do something.

Why did the guards care after the Snoke was dead? Wouldn't they now "work for" Kylo? Good fight sequence but made no sense and had no real consequences in the overal plot.

Rey's parentage is revealed. I don't believe it for a second. If that's it then it's the worst reveal ever in a SW film.

I know most of that makes it sound like I very much disliked the film. Oddly enough, I mostly enjoyed it. It's superior to TFA but not up to the original trilogy. I'll watch the last film in the trilogy because I wasted time with Episodes 1, 2, & 3. If I can sit through those 3 films I can sit through another to finish the trilogy, even if it is coming from Abrams, who, IMHO, is a hack (I've yet to see anything he's directed I actually like). After that, I'm done with this franchise. I don't find any of the new characters compelling or interesting enough to care about their stories.

 

[BobO'Link]

And I wonder, if you're not someone who usually purchases in advance... if you took the time to leave your home and travel to the theater, are you going to turn away when the ticket choice isn't as good as you might have hoped? Or are you going to figure that you already made the plans and schlepped, might as well stay?

Yes, I'll turn away and go home. And that's without "reserved seat" ticket purchases. If I walk in the theater and all that's left are the crappy seats (those on the floor before the risers - sat there once - never again, side seats that offer a partially obstructed view, the first 3 rows of riser seats, and others equally bad) I'll get a refund and leave. Repeated experiences like that are just one of the many things that have turned me off theater showings, especially opening weekend/week showings. It's why I wait several weeks into a run before bothering with a theatrical viewing for those few movies I feel need to be seen that way at least once.

If the theater here offered reserved seating, I'd not bother at all until a few weeks into the run simply because I refuse to pay advance/online purchase fees. Even then, if I couldn't get the seat in areas I like upon arrival at the theater I'd leave. In all fairness, it takes me at most 10 minutes to get from my house to the only theater in town.

 

[TravisR]

Bombers... in space... where there's no gravity... riiiiiight...

Well, Star Wars isn't known for its adherence to the laws of physics but to cite precedent, there are TIE Bombers in The Empire Strikes Back. I'm sure it was purely to answer the people questioning the science behind it but it's established (outside of the movie) that the bombs are magnetized so that they're drawn to their target.

Why didn't the Empire fleet just send waves of fighters to the *front* of the Rebel cruiser? If Fynn and co. can leave, go to another planet, and catch up when they return, surely a fighter can catch the cruiser.

If the First Order TIE Fighters were even fast enough to catch up, they weren't strong enough to destroy the Resistance ships. The TIEs could continue to batter the Resistance ships (like how they destroyed the bridge that Leia was on) but there's no reason for the First Order to lose ships & pilots when they can just wait until the Resistance ships run out of fuel and destroy them then.

 

[BobO'Link]

Well, Star Wars isn't known for its adherence to the laws of physics but to cite precedent, there are TIE Bombers in The Empire Strikes Back. I'm sure it was purely to answer the people questioning the science behind it but it's established (outside of the movie) that the bombs are magnetized so that they're drawn to their target.

True, but those bombers in TLJ were more traditionally designed with bomb bay doors and a deployment mechanism that screamed gravity fed. It was a fun, well done, and impressive, sequence but just felt wrong.

If the First Order TIE Fighters were even fast enough to catch up, they weren't strong enough to destroy the Resistance ships. The TIEs could continue to batter the Resistance ships (like how they destroyed the bridge that Leia was on) but there's no reason for the First Order to lose ships & pilots when they can just wait until the Resistance ships run out of fuel and destroy them then.

Yeah, I have a vague recollection of that being addressed in the film. I just didn't "get" why the Empire ship just didn't move in for the kill. It should be fast enough, although I think that issue, too, was addressed. The whole "we're running out of fuel" bit seemed there for nothing but plot. Once in motion and up to speed they don't have to expend fuel to move and would only need to burn more if the Empire ship accelerated and they needed to move away a bit faster.

Even though I don't particularly like the films, I think the prequel trilogy told a more compelling story. After all, it was about people we already knew and were finding out how they got to where they were at the beginning of "A New Hope." Sadly, those films suffered from poor scripting, poor acting (mostly due to the script), poor casting choices, poor direction, and mostly relied on cool visual effects to carry the films.

TFA felt mostly like it wanted to be a reboot of the original trilogy, it certainly had enough of it on display that it felt like an absolutely unnecessary part of the story.

I just wish I cared about the core characters in this trilogy more. We had that necessary character backstory in the original trilogy so that we knew a bit about our heroes and cared but there's zero on display for Rey, Finn, and Poe. After 2 films we still know little to nothing about any of them. There's no chemistry between them. They're just there, moving from action sequence to action sequence. For me that pretty much relegates this series to nothing more than a group of SF actioner popcorn films with the Star Wars banner attached. TFA was too predictable. TLJ improves significantly but having it focus on a group of people for whom we have no reason to actually care about their individual outcomes reduces its effectiveness. We knew more about Luke, Han, Leia, Chewie, and more at the end of Star Wars than we do about any of the main characters in the new trilogy after *two* films.

Other than the rather generic "Empire" we have no real villain in this trilogy. Kylo Ren is laughable. Spank the kid and send him to bed without his supper. Every time he's on the screen I see a pale Nicholas Cage clone attempting his best tongue-in-cheek "I'm baaaad! Fear me!!... Really... I am!" posturing.

When it comes right down to it, the presence of Luke, Leia, Chewie, R2D2, and C3PO feel like they're there mostly for fan service. Their parts could easily have been given to new characters and not made a significant impact on the overall story. Essentially being present so these films can be called VII and VIII and IX. In spite of that, Luke and Leia's characters were far better utilized here than in TFA.

While not as overt as TFA, there were several sequences that scream "The Empire Strikes Back" and are just as obvious as those "homages" in TFA.

I'm sure I'll have more "complaints" when I eventually purchase a copy and watch it again. In spite of that I think it's a fun film, certainly better, and more watchable, than any in the prequel trilogy and TFA. I'll have to see it again to determine if I think it's better than ROTJ, but they're essentially neck and neck for me at the moment. Heck, it's quite possible that Rogue One will move up once I see it again. To date, I've seen it once, during the original run. It's not yet been put on sale for a price I'm willing to pay. Of course, it's from Disney, who always inflates the value of their products, so it could be quite some time before that happens.

Oh... before I forget again... I'd actually go see this one in the theater again if it were still playing here and someone asked (although I would not be the one to make the suggestion). That's rare for me as I'm generally content to see a film once in the theater and wait for its appearance on home video to see it again. While this is nowhere near the same league, the last time I saw a film I felt that way about was the LOTR trilogy films.

 

[BobO'Link]

Oh yeah... When Rey and Poe meet late in the film:

Poe!
Rey!

I immediately thought "Poe Rey Me Fa Sol La Ti Poe!" (Ok... my 11 year old granddaughter laughed )

 

[BobO'Link]

...when Luke is force projecting himself, at the last scenes of that, you can see that he's mortally fatigued. He's sweating a little, and has even darker circles under his eyes, and there's just a finality to it starting about a minute before he says "See you around, kid."

Second, Leia is not only aware that the bridge is about to be taken out, she even breathes in and then "holds her breath"! Now, how that would do any good in a vacuum....I don't have the answer to that. But it shows she's preparing herself a second before the hit.

I'm glad I'm not the only person to have seen those "tells." The way people have been talking about those two scenes almost made me think I imagined seeing them.

Normally, holding that breath is bad and can cause depressurization issues. But this is Star Wars. It all comes down to the simple fact that it was her use of the Force which kept her safe and allowed her to pull herself back to the ship.

 

[BobO'Link]

"A New Hope" was first titled that (and given the Chapter IV designation) on the 1981 theatrical re-release.

I saw Star Wars in 1977 during the original run. It had "Episode IV" on the open scroll then. I distinctly remember looking at my wife and commenting "Episode 4?!? Where the hell are 1, 2, and 3?"

**Edited to correct the title**

 

[Tino]

I saw Star Wars in 1977 during the original run. It had "Chapter IV" on the open scroll then. I distinctly remember looking at my wife and commenting "Chapter 4?!? Where the hell are chapters 1, 2, and 3?"

It certainly did NOT have Chapter IV in the opening scroll in 1977.

That happened during one of the reissues on April 10 1981.