sacd experts...is the pioneer 47a dvd player the one to wait for ?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Kevin George, Jan 8, 2002.

  1. Kevin George

    Kevin George Stunt Coordinator

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    i recently sold my rotel 971. i wanted to purchase the sony 555 es sacd player. though the 555 is 5 disk capapble, i really would be fine with a single disk player, but being that i wanted a solid redbook and sacd player the 555 fit the bill.
    ive seen this new pioneer player mentioned recently on the forum though. plays dvd's, sacd and dvd audio. sounds like winner to me especially since i wouldnt mind updating the dvd portion of my system.
    i was on the verge of orderig the 555 but now im not sure. i think i may wait for the pioneer to be released. i do remember hearing though that there was an issue with how this player will play sacd disk and whether it would be the optimum way...something to do with coverting to pcm if i remember correctly.
    could someone explain the downside to the way the pioneer plays sacd disk, if indeed any information regarding this player has surfaced yet.
    my priority with this upgrade is better redbook playback and superior ( with in my budget) sacd playback. it sure would be nice though to have dvd audio as well though.
    sorry if this post is a little vague...it's late though. any quick replies will be highly appreciated since im going to be purchasing something be it the 555 or the new pioneer very soon.
     
  2. Rachael B

    Rachael B Producer

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    Kevin, I think the complaining was about Pioneer's DV-AX10. Having listened to the AX10, I found the criticism unfounded. The SACD chip that the AX10 used is no longer produced. The 747/47A will be different. I want a 47A or AX10. If I don't like the 47A, I have an overseas source for a region-free AX10 at a much lower price than the domestic model. One way or another I'm going to have DVD-A and SACD in a single player. I have high hopes for the 47A, we'll see...? Best wishes!
     
  3. Keith Mickunas

    Keith Mickunas Cinematographer

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    The 47A is a true SACD player from the looks of it. The older Pioneer converted SACDs to PCM before converting them to analog, which many people felt could be detrimental to the sound. Personally unless someone comes out with something competitive soon, this will be my next player.
     
  4. Larry B

    Larry B Screenwriter

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    Kevin:

    I know I'm in the minority here, but I maintain that you can not determine how a CD player (or any other component) sounds without listening to it.

    In HT, far more than in audio-only circles, a lot of emphasis is placed on having the latest technologies. However, in the case of a CD player, having the latest DAC in no way insures the qulaity of the music production. (If it did, all players with the same DACs would sound the same, and they don't.) One of, if not the most important part of any audio component is it's power supppy (and how well isolated the circuits are). This is, in large measure, what separates the really great components from the not so great, and what makes them so darn expensive. As you may know, some of the best audio components in the world have external power supplies, so as to better isolate the circuits.

    Bottom line: If you are truly interested in music reproduction, I suggest that you (1) buy a dedicated CD player, and (2) listen extensively before purchasing.

    Good luck, and enjoy.

    Larry
     
  5. Michael_T

    Michael_T Second Unit

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    I am with Larry on this one. If you are serious about music reproduction buy a dedicated CD/SACD player. The addition of video circuitry is bound to have some effect on the player, overall.

    I would love to audition the Pioneer, though, to see if it is as good as any of the Sony SACD players. I currently own both a 333ES and a CE775 - and I was thinking of upgrading to the Sony XA777ES - since the review on this machine are stellar. I also own the Technics DVD-A10 for DVD-Audio. This Pioneer would allow me to replace the CE775 and the Technics DVD-A10 for one surround sound player. Even if I were to purchase the Pioneer if I felt it was satisfactory, I would probably still keep the 333ES for it's great stereo CD and SACD playback.
     
  6. Jaehoon Heo

    Jaehoon Heo Stunt Coordinator

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    I saw a post in this forum that 47A has the DAC which has native DSD-to-Analog circuitry. Actually I don't mind whether it's directly converted to analog, or to PCM and then to analog, unless it is done weirdly. DSD-to-A conversion is a LPF function, and in native DSD converter it will be done with a analog LPF. Converting DSD into PCM will also be done with digital LPF, and if it is done with linear-phase FIR with enough taps, it may be better than native DSD-to-A conversion, since digital FIR can simplify final analog LPF.

    What I am afraid is the video quality, as 47A is also for DVD-V playback. Some videophiles had quite bad ratings for Pioneer progressive-scan DVD players, and I wonder that mistakes still persist in DV-47A. If not, it will be a real winner like Panasonic RP91 last year. Can anybody comment on DV-47A's video performance?
     
  7. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Kevin,

    It has been said by some in attendance at the CES this week that the '47A handles DSD bitstream in the native state for conversion to analog. That is, there is no DSD to PCM conversion. Hopefully, this information is accurate.

    I agree with others here that the inclusion of so many features into the '47A could adversely affect its audio peformance. It has been long-established that DVD players are often inferior CD players relative to comparably priced dedicated CD players. This is usually attributed to the inclusion of video circuitry, which can cause interference in the transfer of information from a CD. Also, the inclusion of a video section can cause compromises in the design of the player from an audio standpoint, which obviously does not come into play with dedicated CD players. Finally, a DVD laser is not considered optimal for reading and transfer of digital data from a CD, so it is better to have a DVD player with a dual-laser assembly.

    The inclusion of video circuitry in the '47A could render it a good, but not great audio component. This in combination with the fact that the '47A offers both high-resolution audio formats could cause it to be good, but not great with either one. You know what they say about a "Jack of all trades". In any event, the quality of the '47A remains to be seen. Give it a listen next month. See if you can compare it to the 'C555ES.

    Larry,

    Certainly the latest and greatest DAC is not nearly enough to guarantee good CD playback. One must consider the quality of the transport, analog output stage, power supply, clock (i.e., ability to minimize jitter), capacitors, external (chassis) build quality, etc. Just look at the $180 Pioneer DV-440 DVD player. It has a 24/192 Burr-Brown DAC. How good a CD player can the '440 really be? PCM DAC chips aren't too expensive these days, so putting a 24/192 Burr-Brown chip in a $180 DVD player isn't much of a feat.
     

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