I ordered the Panasonic E80S recorder based on some research and other folks input and it seems like the logical choice, but now I see I can get the Philips 985 for much cheaper. My main concern as I've mentioned before is the ability to EASILY create and edit, and copy home videos from VHS/ 8mm etc. to DVD. I realize that the 80gig hard drive that comes with the 80 is supposed to make viewing and recording much handier...but nowhere on the web can I find concrete info talking about the ease of editing (creating menus, chapters etc) w/ the 80. Can the 985 handle lots of editing w/o a hard drive to help in the process? I see the 985 offers the DV input and VCR+ and the literature makes it appear to be user friendly when creating home video compilations. Since my E80 is on backorder, I'm willing to listen to a few more pro/cons of both machines..I'd really like to hear from 985 users and their experience editing. Is missing a hard drive a hinderance(sp)?? I also saw the DVDRW compatability site that tells you which home DVD players play DVD+R ok ..luckily my two players show they will play them..as I see many other brands will. Any last thoughts? Thanks for listening and all the help folks!