New Joss Whedon show announced: Dollhouse (1 Viewer)

[Steve Berger]

Originally Posted by Paul_Scott



Not sure I follow.
Why would the future here be flexible?

Personally, I believe in free will and not predestination.
My thoughts on glimpses of the future or past (or time travel) is that you can change the future but not change the past. Anything you do now affects what happens later, but you can't go back (physically or via messages) and change something that has already occurred during or before your personal linear timeline. (this last part applies to time travel stories and avoids most paradoxes)

If the show was being shown from the viewpoint of the future episode, then it would be fixed and all of the episodes set in current time could only lead to the future results. Since the show is being seen from the present viewpoint, nothing in the future episode is destined to occur. Whedon can declare result as fixed but it really limits story options.

Personally, I wish I had not seen Epitaph One. I would rather look back from the end and realize that I had all of the clues needed to foresee the results. Now I fear that they will beat us over the head with the obvious, week after week.

There are various ways to write stories that look at the future or past but it requires writers who have actually read and written science fiction. Sci-Fi shows written by people who don't know anything about Sci-Fi can drive me to distraction. At the very least, they should hire a consultant to point out obvious gaffs.

 

[Mikah Cerucco]

We went through the whole first season with the show having nothing to do with time travel. The question is, is Epitah One a flash forward (view of the future) or time travel? I saw it as a view of the future, in which case it's preordained. If it's time travel, it can be changed.

Just to clarify the distinction, if I have a book with 31 chapters that covers the period of Jan 1 - Jan 31st, but in Chapter 15 I talk about things that happen on the 31st, that's a flash forward, not time travel. It's a literary construct because the reader/viewer exists outside the timeframe of the events taking place. But what happens on the 31st is what happens on the 31st. The reader/viewer can be told about th3 31st at any time and it isn't time travel. A character living on the 15th visiting the 31st while all around him continue on the 15th is time travel.

 

[Steve Berger]

Originally Posted by Mikah Cerucco

We went through the whole first season with the show having nothing to do with time travel. The question is, is Epitah One a flash forward (view of the future) or time travel? I saw it as a view of the future, in which case it's preordained. If it's time travel, it can be changed.

I took it as a view of the future but I would argue that it is not preordained. I would see it as a possible future but any action taken in the present can, and will, change that future. (I don't think time travel is involved in the show. I just extended my philosophy - that you can change the future but you can't change the past - to include that option.)

I think Whedon is looking at Epitaph One as a predetermined future but I think that is a terrible idea from a Science Fiction and literary standpoint.

 

[Mikah Cerucco]

Originally Posted by Steve Berger

I took it as a view of the future but I would argue that it is not preordained. I would see it as a possible future but any action taken in the present can, and will, change that future.

But what would be the point of that? In order for the scenario you've outlined to come to pass, the episode has to be taken as fantasy -- even within it's own world. It'd be the equivalent of making a movie today about the complete Obama presidency. Maybe I'd guess right on some things, but maybe not. But they'd be guesses, not a view of the future. Things that occur in the real world would necessarily "change" what shown in the movie. I put change in quotes because since it's fantasy anyway, reality wouldn't really be "changing" anything -- it'd be proving guesses wrong.

I think Whedon is looking at Epitaph One as a predetermined future but I think that is a terrible idea from a Science Fiction and literary standpoint.

I don't follow why you think the creater of the show looks at it as a predtermined future, but you'd argue that it isn't preordained.

Anyway, I don't have a stake in things. I saw the episode and proceeded to forget about it ASAP. I don't want it in my Dollhouse world as it's a radical mental departure from the show I've been watching (for me). I don't want some post apocalyptic Dollhouse. It's just that as I read the posts, it occurred to me that given the show we've seen so far, it either has to be time travel (nonstarter), or predetermined future. Or fantasy (may as well have been someone's dream).

 

[Scott-S]

One thing to remember is that this episode did not air. It was filmed just in case there was no 2nd season. In fact, it is in the "Special Features" section on the DVD, not the last regular episode.

Since there is going to be a season 2, the Epitaph episode is just sort of a neat look into one way the show would have gone. Most viewers won't see Epitaph, so they won't have any knowledge of this possible future except what is shown in the new episodes. This means that Joss could choose to go this way or not. All this means to me is that it was just one possibility, not a definite.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Originally Posted by Scott-S

One thing to remember is that this episode did not air. It was filmed just in case there was no 2nd season. In fact, it is in the "Special Features" section on the DVD, not the last regular episode.Actually, while it is on the disc with the Special Features, it's not in the Special Features section (like the unaired pilot is). It's part of season one for everywhere except the Fox broadcast network.

Since there is going to be a season 2, the Epitaph episode is just sort of a neat look into one way the show would have gone. Most viewers won't see Epitaph, so they won't have any knowledge of this possible future except what is shown in the new episodes. This means that Joss could choose to go this way or not. All this means to me is that it was just one possibility, not a definite.

Except he has repeatedly stated in interviews that Season 2 is going to include flash forwards to the "Epitaph" storyline. All systems are go for this episode being an out-of-left-field but canon part of the show's continuity.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

Another show I watched in a big gulp once I heard it was renewed. Pleasantly surprised. The show's biggest hurdle is Eliza. As long as they work around her limited range and leave the heavy lifting to the other cast members it should do well. An unfortunate dynamic though.

 

[mattCR]

Summer is in the house:

http://www.dollverse.com/2009/08/official-summer-glau-joins-dollhouse.html

Summer Glau has filmed 2 eps so far, and has a commitment open for more