Nautilus Speaker Suggestion Please for PROCEED AMP2/3 please

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Masashi Kuroko, Feb 10, 2002.

  1. Masashi Kuroko

    Masashi Kuroko Auditioning

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    Hi

    I am new to this forum, and looking for your suggestion to make the final decision on my speaker purchase to my new HT.

    I am using Proceed AMP2/3 for power amp and have finally decided to replace the exisiting speaker set up and go with Nautilus 800 series, which I have been deaming for such a long time.

    Initially, I was considering 802 at front, HTM1, and 804 for rear surround, and I have purchased 804 already through e-bay...however, I have been reading through reviews and forum post, I realize many people are suggesting over 250W of decent power amplification for these models, even for 804s. As my amps only deliver 150W, now that I am bit concern about their capacity. I am hoping that at least they can drive 804s and HTM1 but I am afraid I need another investment on larger amplifier to withdraw full potential of 802s.

    I am now considering if I should go for

    1) 4 804s + HTM1 set up

    2) 2 804s + 2 805s + HTM1

    3) Buy HPA2 and 2 802s + 804s + HTM1

    As I saw very good review on 804s not only for music application but also as theater main channel with combination of good sub(s), and abviously with budget consideration.

    My usage on Music vs Movie is about 2:8 and using single Velodyne HGS15 for the sub channel at this moment. (Other units are PAV/PDSD/CDD/DAP with SONYDVP9000ES, and SharpZ9000)

    Less expensive is always better, but I do not want to end up in replacing the speakes in 6 months neither. I really appreciate anyone's advice/suggestion/comment on how you consider the above conbinations from profermance/cost perspective especially with past/current experience with AMP/Nautilus combination.

    Thank you in advance,

    Masashi Kuroko
     
  2. rodneyH

    rodneyH Supporting Actor

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    I think you will be fine with the 150W of PROCEED power. I am running 150W of rotel power to my CDM7NTs and it does a great job, I would expect the proceed to do even better.

    As for your choices, I hear that the 2 best in the 800 line are the 802 then the 804 (so you appear to be right on track with the info I have recieved, that being said, Personally, I would go with the 804s, I like the overall package better and since you already have a good sub, I would get the 804 for fronts the HTM2 for the center (which is a 804 on its side) and the 805 rear, that is my dream system). good luck!!
     
  3. Masashi Kuroko

    Masashi Kuroko Auditioning

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    Thank you for your reply, Rodney.
    Yes, I heard lots of good things about 804s except for its bass capability.
    I am glad to get the agreement on 804, 805 combination as I can save myself from streaching my wallet too much....yes 802 can be too big of the jump for me..
    Just one thing...I thought HTM1 is the twin brother of 804 with same speaker configuration with better match. I had a big problem with my previous speakers on matching R&L and Center (and it is a main cause for this upgrade) and I would like to make sure I get a nice continuity.
    Is there a comment on best matching center with 804?
    Thank you [​IMG]
    Masashi
     
  4. Mark Austin

    Mark Austin Supporting Actor

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    I would go with this setup, 2) 2 804s + 2 805s + HTM1, or 2 802's and 2 805's and HTM1.
    IMO, the 804's as rears is a waste. I know some people use them as rears, but the rears just aren't used that much, and the 804's would be underutilized in that capacity.
    You simply love the HTM1 with the 804's. Great center channel.
    As far as the power? I would probably go with a little more than 150W to power the 802's if that's the route you go. You could get by for now with the 150w, but the 802 is not a "get by" speaker. You want to give it everything it needs to shine at its best.[​IMG]
     
  5. Mark C.

    Mark C. Supporting Actor

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    Masashi:

    That HTM1 is a huge center channel. Unless you're planning to put it on the floor in front of a screen, it might be better to go with the HTM2. Yes, the HTM2 matches the 805s, but it is a much more manageable size and would be a fine match for the 804s. You could always return it for the HTM1 if you don't like the match.

    As for rears, 805s or even the CDM1NTs would be fine. I have CDMs for my fronts with 601S2s as my rears. I'm very satsified with them.

    As for power for your 804s, I'm using a Classe integrated at 100 watts per channel for my two-channel setup. It's an outstanding combination.
     
  6. Thomas_Berg

    Thomas_Berg Screenwriter

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    i noticed noone mentioned the 803's. i know they are the same as the 804's with slightly larger woofers, but are they a 'waste' of money? does it make more sense to just go for the 802's, even though they are alot more expensive?
     
  7. Stephen_Dar

    Stephen_Dar Stunt Coordinator

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    I'm building my HT system slowly, starting with my love of music. So, I have the 803s as main speakers run from the Krell 300i (150 wpc), and I have the Bag End infrasub. I'd like the 804 on its side for center but need a bigger TV first :)
    Anyway, first, to address the amplifier issue. I'm no engineer or expert, Masashi, but everything I've learned so far says DO NOT SHOP BY TECH SPECS alone, ie, ignore the numbers for the most part. Instead, listen to recommendations from magazines and listeners on this forum to choose a few candidate amps, then go listen. What you realize eventually is that the "experts" often rave about $10k tube amps that put out only 30 wpc. Now, this all gets into the magical world of audio voodoo pretty quickly (how do tubes sound vs solid state, etc), but bottom line, there really do seem to be a number of factors that influence sound quality, and total amp power ranks pretty damn low on the scale of importance. Example - a friend has a pair of 801s that he was running off a Krell 250a (250 wpc) which sounded great, then he auditioned a friends old giant Krell amp (forget the model) that's only rated at 100 wpc. That thing sounded better to me than his 250a, particularly with improved bass response, and it is only a 100 wpc amp. Bottom line - does it sound good to you?
    As to the speaker choice - I agree with Mark Austin. When I stand in shops and hear salespeople suggest that the ultimate audio experience is having 801s in front with 803s or 804s in the rear, I have to scoff. I started my system with a pair of 805s as my main speakers, and they sounded so good on well-recorded CDs that it blew my mind. I sold them to upgrade to the 803s because, based on my listening in shops and at friends houses, it seemed clear to me that the rears are far, far from worthy of speakers of the 805's caliber and I could not justify the cost of keeping them to perform that lowly duty. My plan is to install something like a B & W 603 as my rear, spending no where near the money for speakers or amps back there for something that is only supposed to be supportive of your theatre experience, not primary to it.
    As to the 803s vs 804s, which is worth it, etc, my experience is that each step in the Nautilus ladder gives you about the same amount of overall improvement. I know, that's exactly what B & W marketing would like you to believe, and I tried not to believe it [​IMG] But, I owned the 805s, they are awesome alone, I now own the 803s, they are the 805s expanded in overall capacity to deliver a larger sound stage, slightly better delineation/detail in the mids and highs, and of course, considerably more on the low end. My friend's 801s sound considerably fuller and richer overall than my 803s, so I don't go over there much now[​IMG] So, my advice - buy as much Nautilus as you can afford, plain and simple. I consistently find Nautilus the best choice when I do head to head listening in shops, but do make damn sure you listen to other stuff for comparison, don't take my word for it.
     
  8. rodneyH

    rodneyH Supporting Actor

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    I have a freind who owns a shop that sells B&Ws so I take what he has to say to me with a little more honesty than the typical sales person (since he doesn't make $$ on me either way and we are friends).

    He tells me that they sell (besides the 600 line and CDM line) mostly the 805, 804 and 802, I asked why not the 801 and 803, his responce was that he felt that the 804 offered sweeter mid-range than the 803, and that he felt (besides the signiture line) the 802 was THE best B&W. He stated that the 801 is too muddy and boomy and not nearly as accurate, he says "why do you think they based the Sign line on the 802 NOT the 801?"

    Take that info for what its worth, It is all a matter of opinion at any rate. I would get the HTM1 with the 804, since they are the same speaker and get the 805, or even the cdm1 for the rears, or even the 601 as rears (they will surprise you.

    I think Stephen also provides some very valueble informationa and my thinking about the rears is on line with his. Good luck, and HAPPY SHOPPING
     
  9. Masashi Kuroko

    Masashi Kuroko Auditioning

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    Hi All
    Thank you so much for your great advice [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    It is relly encouraging getting these feedback. I now feel much confident on my decision on selecting a B&W Nautilus. I could see so many love on these speakers.
    I agree with Mark Austin, Mark.C and stephen's opinion on having 804 in rear could be a little overkill(or waste)....Now I remembered seeing several 802 theaters and realized that most of them were using 805 or other B&W series speakers..but some of them was using 3 or 4 805s for 6.1,7.1 set up. Since I already purchased 804 pairs, I think I should take stephen's approach on going step by step with 804+ 805 combination. (I will save my ultimate Nautilus theater configuration for future [​IMG] )
    Yes it is more budget conciuos...especially taking consideration on the fact that it is most likely that I will push myself to replace my loving 4 years old processors (PAV&PDSD) someday to adopt DTS-ES/ THX EX (Yes Proceed announced that they will not be upgrading them anymore.....[​IMG] )requiring another set of rear surround....and also purchasing 802 + HPA2 will streach my budget to almost its limit and I am afraid that I will not be able to invest on good speaker cable/power cable/spikes and other accesories...which I found something that I enjoy very much.
    Today, I purchased 805s at Audiogon (Luckly I had few choices) and I will look for HTM1 for my center. Please let me know if you have friend selling HTM1 in Red Cherry[​IMG] .
    Thank you all again for all of your very valuable advice. I really appreciate them.
    Masashi Kuroko
     
  10. KeithR

    KeithR Second Unit

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    Have you listened to other speakers by chance? There are many in your price range that I would take a listen to before plunking down change on 802s or 804s.
     

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