My SVS 16-46 has FINALLY impressed me! (1 Viewer)

[Mitch Stevens]

I gotta admit that I've had this sub for almost a month now, and it has never impressed me at all. I didn't want to say anything, because there was one guy who trashed an SVS, and he got his ass kicked on this board.

Anyway, the reason it never impressed me, was because it never did any bass deeper than my old sub, which I still have hooked up to my Home Theater.

I played:

Toy Story 2 (not impressed)

Haunting (not impressed...my old sub had the same performance as this one, except my old sub only cost me $200).

Blade & Blade 2 (not impressed at all).

Antz (nope...not impressed).

And a ton of other titles. It wasn't until today, that I was so impressed with the SVS, I went over and hugged it!

I rented "Deuces Wild" even though everyone said it sucked, and while I agree with everyone's opinions, it had the most plentiful, deepest bass, I've ever heard in my entire life. At the end where they shoot Leon
the SVS was pounding so hard, it literally rattled every single one of my CDs off the rack, and they were all over the floor!!!!

I was so excited! I've never had that happen with any sub, or any movie that I've played. This is the very first time that the SVS went over and beyond any expectations I had of it. Just a tiny bit of info, I have it calibrated to 75 dBs and never turn it up more than that. I always watch movies at -10 dBs from reference.

I actually FELT all of the pounding the sub was giving! It was AMAZING! I just wish all the movies I watched had this much bass.

Most impressively, was that the bass coming from the sub, was extremely clean, with no distortion what-so-ever. The only distortion in the room, was from my CDs falling on the floor!

I only wish I had the kind of money to get the 16-46+....I have the PCi version, and my room is huge, so I can't turn it up more than 75 dBs, because it starts to bottom out (I've tried it). That's why I never turn it up, more than that. I've heard that with the 16-46+, you can play it louder, since it has more power, and it won't bottom out.

Anyway, I just wanted to tell everyone my experiences.

 

[Tim Morton]

I thnk you can always come in and say someting like " Hey, got this sub here and to tell you the truth it is not living up to the hype, what gives?"
What the other guy did was open with "Hey this sub sucks!!!" its all in the words you choose So you hugged it huh? My sub us burried under by floor(not an SVS, but a DIY NHT1259) And i say and watched LOTR a couple weeekends back and say at my couch grinning from ear to ear thnking how proud of i was of the her!!!

 

[Anthony.Lin]

just curious - what was your old subwoofer? seems pretty impressive if indistinguishable from the SVS for $200 in most movies.

 

[Mitch Stevens]

My old sub is a Bic America 12" 200 watt sub. In the documentation, it says it'll go down to 25hz, but I have never tested it with tones to see if that's true.

All, I know is that I have *NEVER* been able to bottom out that sub. When it's calibrated to 75dB, the volume gain on the sub is only on #2 of of 10 numbers. I have even played it on #8 one time with music, and it sounds amazing. EXTREMELY powerful, with no distortion that I or anyone else could hear. In this room, I actually have to play it a little bit higher, because I have concrete floors and walls, and I can't feel it as much, but even at higher volumes, it won't bottom out.

I've even turned up the gain on the receiver to +10 (the highest the receiver will go) and still nothing. I even tried the "Loudest" (extra bass) setting, and it won't bottom out.

When I first got the SVS, I calibrated to 80 (5 dB hot) because the manual said it was capable of it, but it quickly bottomed out with music and movies (and the sub volume knob was only half way).

I had to calibrate the SVS to 75dB, and so far so good, it hasn't bottomed out yet, but the fact that I couldn't push it more than that, was kind of a downer! :frowning:

 

[jeff_coil]

So Mitch you have both subs in the mix right now? Just wondering if this could have ill effects on the SVS I have the 20-39pc+ in a 29x29x8 basement HT and it has always preformed remarkable and has never bottomed out. But I am glad it finally lived up to you expectations.
cheers

 

[Juan_R]

Mitch,

You should add another 16-46 when you have the chance and then maybe you won't have to worry about the sub bottoming out.

 

[Lee Bailey]

I would think that you should try using only the SVS itself for awhile. Avoid any cancellation effects of having 2 subs in same room.

 

[Mitch Stevens]

Lee Bailey

You should add another 16-46 when you have the chance and then maybe you won't have to worry about the sub bottoming out.

No thanks. I'm through with 16-46. The only sub I'll add to the mix will be the B-4 (when I can gather the money). That's not to say that the 16-46 is a bad sub, because it certainly isn't, but in larger rooms, you need larger subs.

Anyway, like I said before, I am indeed impressed with it's performance.

 

[Eric C D]

Ah, but have you checked the chance that they are 180 out due to some electrical flip-flop of the signals? Then sitting right on top of each other, you'd sure get almost NO bass until you get below 25 hz (your stated capability of the old sub).

Not saying there is cancellation. It's just that you said "I doubt it" rather than "it didn't make any change when I varied the phase," or "I experimented by turning one off at a time and there is no increase in the sound on the same passages."

it's all good,

Eric

 

[Mitch Stevens]

Eric, I did all kinds of tests and still have been doing tests on both subs. I've spent hours and hours finding which one plays louder, deeper, etc. I've tried lots of the so called "demo" movies (even LOTR).

I put the sub in my listening position, walked around the room (or crawled on my knees) to where it sounded best, and that was in the left hand corner, and that's where I have the subs.

I have tried the subs one in phase, one out, and switched them around. I've tried everything.

They both play almost exactly the same for all movies, except for "Deuces Wild" where the SVS clearly came out on top! Even though I could play my old sub MUCH, MUCH louder than the SVS and not bottom it out, it still doesn't have the kind of power to knock my CDs out of the rack (which the SVS did while calibrated to only 75dB).

If I had a smaller room, there's no doubt that I would play the SVS 10dB higher than now! I love the way it sounds, and the way it feels.

 

[steve nn]

Mitch, What size room are you in?

 

[jeff lam]

For the larger room you should have gotten the smaller SVS sub as it will give you more volume in the normal bass regions. The 16-46 trades a little volume for lower extension.

And just how large is this room???

What peek levels were you measuring from the sub at reference level?

 

[Zack_R]

My old sub is a Bic America 12" 200 watt sub

I've got a Vic America Venturi 12" 200 watt front firing sub. The amp is a seperate Bic America amp and the woofer enclosure has dual 3" front ports. I purchased mine as a floor demo in 1995 or 1996 for $300. The wholease list at that time was between $500-600.

I also just recently purchased the SVS CSU. The Bic has more than met it's match with this guy.

I realize that you have the 46 PC, but after reading your post I can't help but think you have a phase issue with the SVS and your main speakers. My CSU had a dip between 60-90 hz where the Bic had a peak. One of the best ways for me to tell if I was getting speaker phase cancellation was during the Avia sub calibration. My right channel sub test noise was severald dbs below the left. For me all it took was reversing the phase and adjusting the sub vol on the receiver for the CSU to eat the Bics lunch from below 20 to 80 hz. Beyond that test you really need individual test tones to hear what is happening with sound at your preferred listening position.

I second the opinion by others to run just the one sub. I also think the SVS is at slight disadvantage since it is not sittinig on the floor.

I use my Venturi in our great room and it provides plenty of chest thumping (a little boomy, though bass. It like the Bic better than just about any other CC or Best Buy subwoofer. Here are my gripes about the Bic: Yeah it doesn't bottom out but if you notice by a certain db it refuses to play louder. The rest of your stereo will increase but the Bic will hit a ceiling and seem that it refuses to paly the bass extension it did when the volume was lower. No usable output below 28 and it does not have a flat response curve. It is peaky between 50 and 80 and then it rolls down below 35 and attempts to make a triumphant comeback at 30 and then withers away. But for a secondary sub (non-HT due to not good low extension) I'll keep using it.

 

[Greg_R]

All, I know is that I have *NEVER* been able to bottom out that sub.

Most HT subs have bass limiters which prevent bottoming. Unfortunately this circuit also limits output. SVS does not have this circuit (better performance) but you need to keep things in check to prevent bottoming.

 

[Mitch Stevens]

steve nn

What peek levels were you measuring from the sub at reference level?

I have not measured peaks. I have the Test Tone generator program that I downloaded, and I know how to make the test tones, to Wav, and burn to CD, but I don't know how to go about doing the actual tests. I'm willing to learn if anyone wants to teach me.

Which frequency should I start with?
How loud should I play that frequency?
Which weighting system should I start with?
What type of response (fast or slow)?

 

[Ron Stimpson]

Mitch,

In a big dead room like that you picked the one sub I would NOT recommend for "rattle the CD in the holders" bass. The 16-46 goes ultra low, but in a cavern like that you need sheer SPL bursts above 25Hz.

You would have been much better off with a 25-31PCi I think. In any case you might consider getting with us via e-mail and maybe we can create a custom tune port that will work better for you. Tuning the big 16-46 to a more sedate 25Hz or so would be advised, or an exchange.

PS, be VERY careful with testing with sinewaves/tones at anything but VERY VERY moderate sound pressure levels. Sinewaves are not at all like "normal" bass sound. You can smoke a woofer in a matter of seconds if not careful.

PPS, A couple other random thoughts. Your very large room is certainly the reason you experienced bottoming when set +5dB hot (which is due to the limits of the Rat Shack meter is more like 8 - 9dB hot, "actual"). One way to get the last dB out of your sub... pick something like the intro to Toy Story 2, and run up the sub with the main system at as high a level as you would ever watch that movie. If you bottom, then back off, if you do NOT bottom, then you can edge things up a bit one run at a time. Make sure too that you have NO odd settings on your receiver that could have messed up your calibration. Midnight mode is one we run into frequently. FWIW I second the idea above of only running the SVS while you get things dialed in a bit more.

And finally, DO check your calibration with a good test disk like Avia (or my favorite still, Video Essentials). Not only can settings (even the gain knob on the sub) get kicked out of whack easy, but a disk can give radically different settings from those in a receiver. Lastly, don't trust the phase settings on both subs to be the same (both could be at 0deg phase on their amps and be out of phase vis a vis each other). You should get a solid 6dB more resonse with both subs playing over one (which should be easy to test for, no matter what each sub is set to in terms of overall SPL calibration). Less than that and you have cancellation for sure. I would also set the SVS a few dBs higher than the old sub. It's capable of MUCH more bass than the BIC. The latter will simply stop getting louder, but get pretty distorted probably while it gets to that point. The SVS will allow you play (clean and linear) right to the woofer's limits. YOU are the limiter with the SVS, not a chip that's lopping off wave forms with out so much as a "thank you".

In the end if you are not REGULARLY getting the sort of "wow" effect you are seeking it's not too late to get your $$ back from SVS. Either outright or in exchange for a different SVS. We'd rather give a refund than have anyone "not impressed" with their sub!

Ron

 

[Mitch Stevens]

Ok...Thanks Ron, for your help. I'm going to try all of these things again. I don't want to return the sub just yet, because if I'm doing something wrong on my part, I want to fix it, so I could keep the sub. I do want extremely low bass, and I know that this is the sub that will do it (and so will the B4)

First, I downloaded the PEQ ver 1.05 (Excel Spreadsheet available online, along with the mp3s to go with it).

Next, I burned them onto CD.

I entered my data, and here are my results. These are the results of my "MAIN" speakers only! I had both subs completely off, during this test:
Freq raw db Corr.
10.0 55 56
10.6 57 59
11.2 57 60
11.9 57 61
12.6 58 63
13.3 60 66
14.1 61 68
15.0 61 69
15.8 62 71
16.8 63 73
17.8 64 75
18.8 66 78
20.0 70 83
21.1 71 85
22.4 72 87
23.7 72 88
25.1 72 89
26.6 71 89
28.2 72 91
29.9 74 94
31.6 73 94
33.5 74 96
35.5 75 98
37.6 75 99
39.8 73 98
42.2 74 100
44.7 78 105
47.3 73 101
50.1 80 109
53.1 80 110
56.2 84 115
59.6 87 119
63.1 88 121
66.8 91 125
70.8 90 125
75.0 88 124
79.4 86 123
84.1 87 125
89.1 83 122
94.4 86 126
100. 80 121

*I'm sorry...I tried a million different ways to get spaces after each number, but none of the ways I tried worked. I know they're a little bit hard to read all bunched up together.

 

[Mitch Stevens]

Next, I'm gonna try to find out the response of the SVS all by itself (on the floor this time).

 

[Jeffrey Noel]

Ron, you're not running SVSubwoofers???

 

[Mitch Stevens]

Alright....I'm done with the SVS test. Here are the results:

Freqraw dbCorr.Norm db
12.65156-50.1
13.35561-45.1
14.15966-40.1
15.06270-36.1
15.86473-33.1
16.86777-29.1
17.86778-28.1
18.86779-27.1
20.06881-25.1
21.16983-23.1
22.47186-20.1
23.77086-20.1
25.16885-21.1
26.66684-22.1
28.26483-23.1
29.96585-21.1
31.66283-23.1
33.56486-20.1
35.56790-16.1
37.67094-12.1
39.87196-10.1
42.27197-9.1
44.77097-9.1
47.376104-2.1
50.172101-5.1
53.174104-2.1
56.2791103.9
59.6781103.9
63.1781114.9
66.8781125.9
70.8751103.9
75.0711070.9
79.463100-6.1
84.1711092.9
89.1731125.9
94.4721125.9
100.701114.9

*I started the 100hz signal at 70.

*This test was actually conducted backwards. I went from 100hz down to 12hz...Below that, the sub was too low for it to register on the spl meter. I ran this test lower, per Ron's request (that I keep the spl volume much lower so as not to damage the sub).

So, what can you guys make of this? This is only the SVS, with the other sub completely turned off.