meridian 561 WAY better than outlaw 950!! (1 Viewer)

[Rich Malloy]

If bypass is so important for your two channel needs then why not just run out and buy a creek obh-12 passive volume control and go straight form your source into the creek and directly to your amps...Total cost about 200.00 and it doesnt get much cleaner then that.

I suppose the only reason I don't run out and do just that is because I don't know whether it will also decode DTS/DD for home theater applications. If not, then do you think it'd be smarter for me to get the Creek and a separate pre/pro for home theater... or just get something like the OUTLAW that does both?

(I mean, is that a serious suggestion or a dismissal?)

 

[John Morris]

Has anyone tried any other 12au7 tubes or their variants to determine the best tubes to use with the Bottlehead?

How about using insulated pure (99+%)silver wiring for the internals? Anyone try this to see if it alters the bottleheads sound postitively?

 

[John Tompkins]

Bottlehead versues anthem avm-20 in two channel..Now thats a real shootout
Rich, it is a real suggestion. I have found that ht processors while good for ht are not as good as a two box/system solution for two channel music. Integration and rack space can be a problem but its worth it in my opinion.

 

[Saurav]

I'm using JJ/Tesla 12AU7s, and I like them better than what I got stock (I think they were RCA or GE). I haven't really tried anything exotic, had some Mullards in there for a short period.

I suppose the only reason I don't run out and do just that is because I don't know whether it will also decode DTS/DD for home theater applications.

The Creek is just inputs, outputs and a volume control, it has NO processing capabilities. If you want HT anything, it won't work. You could use it for music though, and it will probably be cleaner than many preamps/pre-pros. Of course, there are other complications related to impedance matching that come into play when using passive linestages.

 

[John Morris]

Bottlehead versues anthem avm-20 in two channel

JT: I'm not so sure that switching the Rotel 1066 or the Outlaw 950 or the Lex MC-1 for the AVM-20 would make any difference in this comparison. Folks that like the tubed sound would pick the Bottlehead, and those that don't, won't. Also, keep in mind that many folks here on the HTF have non-full range speakers and a subwoofer without an outboard crossover. Those folks may find the Bottlehead less than satisfying bass wise.

It's stuff and complexities like these that make this such a fun hobby!

 

[John Morris]

I'm using JJ/Tesla 12AU7s,

Sauruv: I'm guessing that they are a matched pair. How much did they cost and where did you find them?

 

[GordonL]

Rich,

Re bypass mode...
Is it only a question of DACs, or is there something about bypassing all that circuitry otherwise used for Dolby, DTS, DSPs, bass management, etc.? I mean, DACs aside, isn't a straight signal from source to amp - with only the volume control intervening - likely to sound better with any pre/pro or receiver?

You're forgetting that the signal from the CD has already passed thru its DAC before it gets to your receiver/pre-pro. Some CD players have better DACs than the ones in receivers/pre-pro. Analog bypass allows one to have the signal pass thru only one digital to analog conversion (the CD player's). The Meridian way is digital all the way from source to output so no loss in resolution.

 

[Mifr44]

Of course, one could get a CDP with a tube stage and a solid-state prepro with an analog bypass and compare that to a tube-based preamp.

Michael

 

[Larry B]

Gordon:

The Meridian way is digital all the way from source to output so no loss in resolution.

The D-to-A conversion takes place in the speakers, if I understand correctly.

Larry

 

[Saurav]

www.triodeelectronics.com. Yes, they're a matched pair. I'd heard them described as good bang-for-the-buck tubes, and I haven't been disappointed. They stock tubes were microphonic, and that was an annoyance. Oh, I think it was around $20 for the pair, I don't remember any more.

 

[GordonL]

Larry,

The D-to-A conversion takes place in the speakers, if I understand correctly.

You are correct! With an all-Meridian system, there is only one D-to-A conversion - at the speakers.

 

[ling_w]

You are correct! With an all-Meridian system, there is only one D-to-A conversion - at the speakers.

It is not just that. The data is upsampled and precision increased to 48 bit. Then the full unattenauated data is sent to the speakers. In the speaker, the digital attenuation occurs, linear-phase digital crossover takes place to seperate the freq for each driver, and DACs customized for each freq range is used so as to optimize the sound. From there, you have seperate analog amplification for each driver. Don't know if they are going to do digital amplification, but that seem to only work for DSD data, which PCM is not.

Don't forget, Outlaw are started by former people from NAD, not Ayre, Wadia or Accuphase.

 

[Steve Zimmerman]

The Meridian way is digital all the way from source to output so no loss in resolution.

Yeah, I'm guessing if I were a Meridian designer I would be pretty offended if someone bought my pre/pro and connected it to a tube amp. Heck, what am I saying... I'm NOT a Meridian designer and I'm still off-put by the idea!

--Steve

 

[Bill Lucas]

Wow, a lot of people here (apparently) haven't experienced Meridian properly setup (and it is an experience).

Merc,

Re:"DSP" modes. Meridian doesn't have DSP "modes". What Meridian does have is Trifield. Trifield was created to retrieve ambient information that is already present on most CDs. It really should be setup by someone who is experienced as it has many settings, most of which interact with each other. Meridian setup allows one to do many things including setting the individual phase of each speaker (you'd be surprised at how many speakers are wired out of phase internally by the factory drones), the width of the soundstage and depth among other settings. The Meridian settings allow you to compensate for room boundaries and room problems. Trifield, yes, cheesy "Hall, Roxy, Theater and Studio" settings, no way in hell.

Note: I am not a Meridian dealer although it is a goal but I do have extensive experience setting up Meridian systems including digital theaters.

 

[Saurav]

Yeah, I'm guessing if I were a Meridian designer I would be pretty offended if someone bought my pre/pro and connected it to a tube amp. Heck, what am I saying... I'm NOT a Meridian designer and I'm still off-put by the idea!

Yup, you certainly seem to have some pretty strong .. well, I wouldn't call them prejudices, but a strong dislike, or distaste, for tube amps.

 

[John Tompkins]

Also, keep in mind that many folks here on the HTF have non-full range speakers and a subwoofer without an outboard crossover. Those folks may find the Bottlehead less than satisfying bass wise.

John,
I happened into something tonight by chance actually that solves this problem. I was comparing dacs in the lex via ta-p9000es bypass and the cambridge 500se dacs via input one on the ta-p. Well first of all I volumed matched and was able at the push of the ta-p button to a/b them, Guess what..absolutely no difference! I couldnt believe it but I will leave these for another post. I had the cambridge connected via the analog out and via the digital out. When I switched to the cambridge I noticed the bass was still coming from the subwoofer, how could this be and then it dawned on me..It was coming from the lex via digital connection from the cambridge. By putting the ta-p in by pass I was only cutting off the l/r speakers.
Now all I have to do is use the lexs volume control for the bass from the subwoofer when using the foreplay or cambridges dacs via the taps bypass. It works great and also you could adjust crossover on sub via lex too. I realize this is double producing some bass..but theres processors out there that do the same thing anyway

 

[BruceD]

ling,

So how do I connect that turntable to the Meridian?

I don't want to go through another A-D-A cycle.

I thought turntables were the real reason analog-bypass was invented.

 

[Frank_S]

Quote:"Of course, one could get a CDP with a tube stage and a solid-state prepro with an analog bypass and compare that to a tube-based preamp."
I have a Classe SSP-25 with "Analog Bypass" It performed very good when I played vinyl through a tube phono stage but when I tried a dedicated 2 channel tube preamp(EAR864), there was no going back. I prefer the tube linestage over SS, just my preference but I imagine most people would agree with me, it's much more musical.
I would have to say that after listening to a few pre/pro's with "Analog Bypass" and also 2 channel preamps that there can be definite noticable differences between their line stages so all pre/pro's with Analog Bypass do not sound the same, IMO.
My next purchase will be a CDP or DAC(tube or SS design) to run through the EAR864, however I will compare the Classe in Analog Bypass to see how it fares.
John, good to see you got your hands on a tube component. I'm rolling Mullards, Telefunken, and Radioteque 12AX7's, 5751, and 12AU7's at the moment. Where did you get your hands on the 5751 Sylvania's?

 

[Steve Zimmerman]

Yup, you certainly seem to have some pretty strong .. well, I wouldn't call them prejudices, but a strong dislike, or distaste, for tube amps

Ok, time to get serious...

I have no distaste for tube amps. I only have a problem with "tube amp = high end" and that's the way it's being marketed. It's not being marketed as an alternative to SS; it's being marketed as higher end than SS.

I'm glad to see that companies like Meridian have stayed true to the notion that digital still belongs in the high end. It makes me a fan of their products.

--Steve

 

[John Morris]

Re:"DSP" modes. Meridian doesn't have DSP "modes". What Meridian does have is Trifield.

Bill L: Oh my. I guess I was wrong in assuming that the Trifield mode is processed by a DSP Chip or Chipset. Sorry. What process is then used and what chips or internal components are used to "extract" this somehow hidden, yet always available "ambience track" on all CDs?

I guess I just mistakenly thought that the Meridian Trifield mode was somewhat like the Logic 7 mode which also has been touted as merely "extracting ambience" when generating those last two channels. I guess I just can't understand why some folks consider DSP processing and the modes they produce to be such a dirty word?