Levinson's Rosette1 amp...Cutting Edge or Cut Me a Break? (1 Viewer)

[Chu Gai]

There are certain names in the high end circle that are spoken with reverence. No, not Emerson or SoundDesign. I'm talking about the designers that some say are responsible for ushering in the modern age of good sounding amplification employing sophisticated advanced designs. It is said they have unique insight and knowledge of electronics beyond those of mass suppliers such as Sony, Denon, Onkyo. For them it is said, cost is no object.
One such individual is Mark Levinson, who while no candidate for bringing order to the screwed up accounting practices of this country of ours, is still spoken with reverence. Now many of you may own his equipment and please don't take what I say as a personal slap or a negative indictment against anything you own. While I don't own any Levinson products, to me, at the very least, they have a macho coolness factor. There's certainly something to be said for owning an amp that requires one to wear a large leather belt to prevent permanent bodily damage!
Now Mr. Levinson is presently the President and CEO of Red Rose music that sells various products. People buy them in part due to his reputation and are willing to spend a goodly sum of money for a product that he has a personal affiliation with. To that end consider the following.
I, as well as a few others, have noticed what appears to be a striking similarity between the following two amps.
Link Removed which retails for approximately $2,000.
Korsun U2 which is made in China and retails for about $200.
Are they in fact the same? If they are what do you think about this? Maybe many of the other products that are out there are also being altered ever so slightly and having their prices jacked up.

 

[Larry B]

Chu:

This issue was raised in a recent post. While I didn't know the answer to your question then, and still don't, I will point out that Levinson (the man) is not the designer of Red Rose products.

I doubt that helps, but I thought I'd throw it in.

Larry

P.S. In fairness, I should also point out that to his credit, Levinson was a key player in establishing the era of truly high-quality audio gear.

P.P.S. For those who don't already know this, Levinson has not been associated for quite a few years with the company that bears his name.

 

[Larry B]

Chu:

While I don't own any Levinson products, to me, at the very least, they have a macho coolness factor. There's certainly something to be said for owning an amp that requires one to wear a large leather belt to prevent permanent bodily damage!

As I alluded to above, Levinson the man is in no way associated with the amps to which you are most likely referring.

Larry

 

[Larry B]

I see that the Red Rose site no longer contains information regarding the origins of their products.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Are they in fact the same? If they are what do you think about this? Maybe many of the other products that are out there are also being altered ever so slightly and having their prices jacked up.

Chu,
I seriously doubt that the Rosette based on my experience is the same as a Chinese $200 amp.
Mark Levinson helped define high end audio in the 70s and build out the market with his superb amps. He then went to Cello which was awesome and then started Red Rose which I also like but prefer Maggie speakers to his monitors.
I know Mark through some friends and he is a genuinely nice guy. He is smart, knowledgeable and very helpful with free advice - all uncommon for major name high end designers.
There is a belief among some that Mark is more sales oriented these days as a Super Audio evangelist (like me ) than knowing the latest circuit design techniques. However, he still builds equipment himself and designs, but I believe he delegates the technology to others, perhaps understandable given his busy schedule and prominent stature in the business.
This is what I like about Levinson:
1. He figured that Super Audio was the next big thing very early.
2. He is a music lover first, audiophile and equipment geek second.
3. He is a quality musician and uses his knowledge to help determine sonics with a more critical ear.
4. He is a master recording engineer. His Red Rose SACDs are some of the best, most natural recordings in existence.
5. I have seen him work hard with very small budgets to create systems for people on a tight budget. He really likes to help people.
6. He and Kim cattrell make a very interesting pair and some spice to this dull (at times) audio business.
I am interested in learning more about the Chinese amp, but I am likely to give Mark the benefit of the doubt on this. If they have the same parts and sonics, that would be quite a story but I doubt it.
The burden of proof rests on you Chu. Go investigate!

 

[Danny Tse]

All I know is that Kim Cattrall of "Sex & The City" fame is ML's wife. Lucky dude!!

 

[chung_sotheby]

Yeah, and they wrote a book together on the joys of the female orgasm. I guess he must have gotten the trumpet treatment, a la American Pie II, from mrs. cattrall a least a couple of times when he was recording his famous red rose sessions
Just joking. but damn, still a lucky dude.

 

[Larry B]

" All I know is that Kim Cattrall of "Sex & The City" fame is ML's wife. Lucky dude!!"

Maybe yes, maybe no.

 

[Scott Oliver]

Companies like Theta and Ayre with their DVD transports start out with a Pioneer DVD player and completely re-work it to make it into their own. Of course they also redesign the case work where as Red Rose isn't. This doesn't necesarily mean much, if the original casing is of good quality. A lot can be done on the inside of a components chasis, just look at all the US modification companies and the work that they do.

With this being said Red Rose as a company is a mess. They have no direction as to what they are trying to achieve and their goal from three years ago when they started has already morphed so often that it is to the point of being comical. Company started off with motto of making music simple through a few simple stages of products at a suppossed reasonable price. These original products were designed by either Mark or some other well-renowned builders across the states. Now who knows what they are doing.

The person who originally built and designed all of their speakers, which received good reviews is no longer employed. And I am going to guess the same is true for their amp designs since they are all now sourced from China.
My local dealer, who was the first Red Rose dealer in the states, is pissed as hell at Red Rose and has since dropped the line. This from a man who once spoke very highly of their designs.

If music is such a great passion of his then perhaps he should just stick to the production booth. For as Lee stated his recordings are very nice including the remaster he did of Miles Davis' Complete Birth of Cool.

 

[Larry B]

I think most in the industry agree that Mark Levinson is a better designer than he is a businessman. Of course, the same can be said of one of my favorite speaker designers, Albert Von Schweikert.

If these guys were smart, they would hire qualified business managers and stay in the lab, where they belong.

My 2 cents.

Larry

 

[Chu Gai]

Well sorry to disappoint anyone, but Levinson has stated the Rosette is based on the chinese design but it's supposed to have some sort of 'unknown' modifications. Curiously though he forgot to change the el cheapo RCA's in the back . Indeed I am looking into it and if i can get internal pics of the Rosette you'll find them here. More than a passing similarity though I think

 

[Larry B]

Chu:

Well sorry to disappoint anyone

You didn't disappoint me. But I think I hear Lee sobbing in the background.
Larry

 

[Chu Gai]

BTW Larry, I'd be more concerned about his wife given Levinson's poor track record with finances.
I sure wish I could think of something witty to add to chung's trumpet comment. That cracked me up big time!

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Well sorry to disappoint anyone, but Levinson has stated the Rosette is based on the chinese design but it's supposed to have some sort of 'unknown' modifications.

I'm sorry Chu but I can't take this on face value.
What is your source? is there a link?
If there are modifications, these could easily equate to $2K on a retail basis if premium parts are used. Judging from the pictures of the back of the amp, for instance, it does not seem up to even average quality.
It just seems like you are trolling for a way to bash Mark.
Poor form, indeed.

 

[Chu Gai]

Hey Lee...I'll bet you $1, a la Trading Places, if I'm wrong. You know the guy, right? Ask him. And while you're at it, ask him why he hasn't submitted an amp to soundstage.com so they can open it up and compare the circuitry. Bashing...nope. Simply opening a can and looking to see what kind of worms there are. Might as well ask him the nature of his OEM agreement with the people who make the Korsun in the PRC.
BTW, I'm looking at obtaining one. My son's got a buddy in the military in Korea and I might be able to wrangle one.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Mark can be hard to reach sometimes, but I will call Victor Tiscareno this weekend.
Now who do we trust, Super BQ a 28 year old DIYer on the Internet or a living audio legend?
:rolleyes
And so I ask again, what is your source?
Is there a soundstage story? What other info are you holding back on us?
Come on Chu...fess up!

 

[Chu Gai]

trust in cash

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Is "trust in cash" your source?

How do we reach him?

 

[Chu Gai]

hey its a dollar...that's damn sporting of me! But you can't tell me there isn't the most amazing similarity now can you? And if so, it makes one wonder just how many other items are being remarketed with price jacks. Got to admit though, that's mighty impressive components for a 200 buck amp now isn't it? Personally, I think we'll be seeing more of this stuff...Stay tuned for Chu's Tubes

 

[Lee Scoggins]

:rolleyes

And if so, it makes one wonder just how many other items are being remarketed with price jacks.

For someone that picks apart the most technical details of DBTs, this is an amazing statement...you have not proved that is what's happening.
You have presented no credible evidence so far except for pictures of the Korsun which has no heat sinks on the outside like the Rosette.
:rolleyes
Chu, you should cut the HTF a break!