I just got done watching Pinocchio (1940 Disney verison) and well..

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Kenneth Cummings, Dec 1, 2002.

  1. Kenneth Cummings

    Kenneth Cummings Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2001
    Messages:
    852
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I believe Pianchio is the anti-Disney (a usual Disney movie) movie!

    Yes, you heard me. Years before movies like Altantis and Lilo and Stitch ditch the tradiation "character break into songs" bit. Hear, I only recall two songs. One is the classic "When you wish on a star" which everyone knows of. But the other is the various redone song that "Honest" John keeps singing.

    Speaking of Honest John and his gang of villains (including Monstro, the taskmaster, that evilpuppetear, and donkey boy), we never really get to see any of them (except donkey boy) get punished for their crimes. Honest John, he sales Pianchio into slavely TWICE in the movie, and what happens to him? Nothing. Taskmaster, he makes a living selling little boys to mines. And his punishment is nothing. No cops arresting them, no death, just them going on their business.

    And which brings me to that plot point. Even so there tons of kids getting kidnaped everyday, no one tells the cops or anything. It just like "Pianchio is a real boy now, who cares about those poor boys who are turning into donkeys".

    But I do like the movie, it just seens a little strange to look at. I mean it has Pianchio smoking and drinking beer! Of course that part of the story, but still odd. Oh well, I should relex and hear what you think.

    In case your wondering, I watched this on ABC's wonderful world of Disney.
     
  2. Brian W.

    Brian W. Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 1999
    Messages:
    1,958
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Real Name:
    Brian
    There are lots of songs in Pinocchio: Gepetto sings "Little Wooden Head," Pinocchio sings, "I Got No Strings," Jimminy Cricket sings, "Give a Little Whistle." But you're right -- there are probably fewer songs in Pinocchio than in some other Disney films of the period.

    I think the reason Honest John and the others don't get punished is because Pinocchio is the one who has really done bad -- he's disobeyed his father, skipped school, smoked, drank, etc., so HE'S the one getting punished. The whole idea is that Pinocchio is not completely a victim... his troubles come from the CHOICES he made, which is the moral of the story.

    I see what you're saying, though, and I think the situation with much of the animation today is a little bit sad. It's so friggin' rinky-dink, politically correct, let's make the audience feel good, paint-by-numbers story structure.

    Sometimes I think the worst thing that ever happened to Hollywood is when people started analyzing well-written scripts -- writers now learn "basic story structure" and "character arcs," and how plot point number two should happen on page 36 and every thread has to be resolved and blah, blah, blah. It has just ruined writing in Hollywood, in my opinion.
     
  3. GlennH

    GlennH Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 1998
    Messages:
    2,132
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Real Name:
    Glenn
    Who's "Pianchio"? [​IMG]
     
  4. Patrick McCart

    Patrick McCart Lead Actor

    Joined:
    May 16, 2001
    Messages:
    7,566
    Likes Received:
    195
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Georgia (the state)
    Real Name:
    Patrick McCart
    Wasn't this the premire of the Lowry Digital Images restoration? How did it look?
     
  5. Brenton

    Brenton Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,169
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Kenneth, note the spelling: Pinocchio.
     
  6. Kenneth Cummings

    Kenneth Cummings Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2001
    Messages:
    852
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Do'h, sorry about the bad spelling. By the way, the transfer was pretty good too. *hopes a moderator stumbles on his post and change the topic*



    (Done - Cees)
     
  7. Jan Strnad

    Jan Strnad Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 1999
    Messages:
    1,004
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  8. Bill Street

    Bill Street Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    About the PC thing....

    Better be quiet about Pinocchio being politically incorrect, or they'll pull it like they pulled Song of the South!


    Bill S
     
  9. Steve Christou

    Steve Christou Long Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2000
    Messages:
    15,767
    Likes Received:
    398
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Manchester, England
    Real Name:
    Steve Christou
    Kenneth that was the worst spelling of Pinocchio ever [​IMG] even phonetically it didn't even closely resemble it.[​IMG]
    You're right Pinocchio has some creepy sequences and unsolved mysteries, but its a children's tale, a fable, and arguably the greatest animated film of all time.
    Posted by Steve C.[Typo Police]
     
  10. Lew Crippen

    Lew Crippen Executive Producer

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    Messages:
    12,060
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    At the risk of sidetracking this thread, I would suggest that all (or nearly all) classic children’s literature is either (take your choice) politically incorrect or anti-Disney (as we understand it today).

    Begin with the Brothers Grimm. Their stories are dark and filled with broken families, ineffectual fathers and evil stepmothers and siblings, as well as an assortment of things that go bump in the night. And many of the choices that the protagonists make are not wise ones. Or consider the classic French fairy tale, Beauty and the Beast. Here even Beauty breaks the Beast’s heart and does so with some intent. In Russia, Peter is no paragon of virtue and his nose would have been growing throughout the story.

    Great children’s stories, in my opinion, are filled with characters who make the same bad choices as do the children who are told these stories, and with the same intent. Mostly they want to be good, but sometimes they just have to be bad. These same great stories usually result in consequences to the protagonists that are commensurate with their actions. Indeed often the consequences seem to be excessive.

    As does punishment for an offense seem to a child.

    I believe that Pinocchio speaks to young children in a way that a more perfect hero cannot do. Did we not all want to be good and please our parents? And did we not all act badly from time-to-time, including running away? Not perhaps to be swallowed by a whale, but in our imagination and dreams, something equally bad, or worse.

    As with most things, what is necessary is not necessarily what is politically correct. And it seems to me to be necessary to give children stories that directly address their fears and concerns.
     
  11. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 1999
    Messages:
    16,738
    Likes Received:
    129
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Has anyone here ever read the original book? Talk about being didactic and harsh. It's hard to imagine this tome being handed to kids for "fun." It was intended as stern propaganda on proper behavior and obeying one's parents come hell and high tide. No Disney sweetness and light there.
     
  12. Lew Crippen

    Lew Crippen Executive Producer

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    Messages:
    12,060
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  13. Adam_S

    Adam_S Producer

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2001
    Messages:
    6,307
    Likes Received:
    126
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Real Name:
    Adam_S
     
  14. Kenneth Cummings

    Kenneth Cummings Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2001
    Messages:
    852
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I should give the orignal a read sometime. I haven't had a good book to read in months, so that could get me back on track.
     
  15. Brenton

    Brenton Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,169
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have read the book. I found it strangely dark and bleak feeling throughout most of the story, but amazingly good. I wish they would make a good film faithful to the original source material.

    You know, at the end, Pinocchio sees an overworked donkey lying near him, clearly about to die. He tells the donkey that he looks familiar and asks him his name. "Lampwick," the donkey gasps, and dies. If you don't remember, Lampwick was Pinocchio's friend who went with him to Pleasure Island before they both turned into "jack asses". Haunting, isn't it?
     
  16. Charles J P

    Charles J P Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2000
    Messages:
    2,049
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    Real Name:
    CJ Paul
    I've never read the Pistachio book. I cant believe its so dark as to have one of the main character’s “friends” die at the end. I guess Pinochle gets off easy then. For some really dark Di$ney, check out The Black Cauldron. I haven’t watched it recently because I only have it on VHS, but I remembered really liking it as a kid, so I asked my then fiancé to get it for my birthday, and when I watched it I was like, man this is really messed up. I did get the new re-mastered DVD of Perestroika and while I did enjoy it (hadn’t seen it in years since my parents taped it to Beta when it was on the Disney channel) this movie along with Snow White are in my collection sort of as an homage to the history of animated features, since that is one of my favorite genres. One interesting thing is that I never picked up on some of the more subtle underlying themes of Ponchonokia until after I saw AI and got into some interesting discussions about it.
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Brenton

    Brenton Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,169
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  18. John Watson

    John Watson Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2002
    Messages:
    1,937
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    ping-Pyonyang-Pincochet-Petanke-Petrarch-ping
    phunny...[​IMG]
     
  19. TonyD

    TonyD Who do we think I am?
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 1999
    Messages:
    17,402
    Likes Received:
    520
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Gulf Coast
    Real Name:
    Tony D.
    ABC kindly asked we post this to the forum members...
    A special note from the Assistant Director, Technology and Strategic Planning ABC Television Network...
    "ABC's Wonderful World of Disney's HDTV broadcast of Pinocchio this weekend will be an up-conversion. The full blown restoration for the HD transfer was not ready in time for the December 1st broadcast. A second, quick film transfer of an old print was not deemed worthwhile as there was not enough time for the comprehensive dirt and scratch removal process. The up-conversion was done in post, and should be significantly better that an up-conversion performed at the affiliated stations. Additionally, as the film was shot in the 4:3 aspect ratio, the upconversion will maintain this
    ratio."
     
  20. Kenneth Cummings

    Kenneth Cummings Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2001
    Messages:
    852
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hehe, if that not the really good transfer, then the special edition TWO DISC (hope the rumor is false) dvd will be very good indeed.
     

Share This Page