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Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by AlexJ, Nov 17, 2002.
I’ve actually seen it posted that RPGs aren’t what they used to be.. does anyone agree with that?
Yes...they lack the certain "magic" that they used to have. Now it seems like the glam and spectacle has overshadowed the games. The games for the most part are still very good, but the surface details and glitz are overpowering. I will take my 16 bit RPGs over anything released lately.
Sean has it perfectly. Well almost as I prefer PC style RPG's over "console" style. I will never forget my adventures in games like the early Wizardry's, Any Ultima (including Underworld 1 and 2), Early Might and Magic, etc. It seems the popularity of games is what caused the downfall. Content became secondary to graphics and instant action. Any one remember mapping? I STILL have all my game maps from many of the games before mapping became automated. Kind of a cherished goal or hard won prize I have to keep. Not really an issue to pine over as we will never see the likes of old RPG's again. The game publishers suits (moneymen) will see to that.
Agreed, the RPG really peaked on 16-bit
Phantasy Star 2
I completely agree. I haven't liked most modern RPGs. Here's the problem: too much is out of your control. Play five minutes, watch twenty minutes of cut-scenes, repeat. No choice, no nothing.
And battles, yikes, slow as molasses. Final Fantasy 9 is a fun game, but the battles are so freakin' slow that it drove me nuts to play through it.
Also, the challenge got stripped out. Final Fantasy VII has all its difficult fights as optional weapons. No, they don't need to be that difficult, but c'mon! Where're the days when Rubicant was in danger of wiping out half your party with each attack?
Ironic that my favorite console RPG is Final Fantasy IV given that it is completely linear. But you spend way more time playing it than watching it. Long dungeons and the occasional quickly-over conversation-driven scene (Note: actual talking, not bloody CG). And it's hard!
Old school's way better. Two of my favorites: Ultima VII and Ultima VI were both tech marvels for their time, and they had strong storylines moved along entirely by the player doing things.
Playing an RPG today is more akin to watching a movie than an actual game, which is why it's shoddy. It should be more like reading a good book, which is one reason why I love Planescape: Torment (favorite RPG EVER). The storyline actually goes in one direction, but the way you make it get there can be different every time you play it.
That's why I disliked Final Fantasy X. Sure they finally made the combat fast, but now you have to switch every character in just to get some experience (tedious!) and you watch the game more than you play.
Oh, and the storylines, not as good either. In Final Fantasy VII it was a huge, huge deal to kill of ONE character. I mean, dramatic maybe, but c'mon, that hardly makes for compelling drama. Final Fantasy IV, yep, again, was great because you didn't know what was going to happen. They started offing characters left and right (yeah, so most didn't stay down ) and you had no idea who was going to get taken down next. That makes you want to play more. Bishounen pretty boys who go ha ha ha a bunch and act all hair-flippin' powerful, not so much.
Phew, long-winded. And I know people love the Final Fantasies, and I do enjoy the play time, but they're more multi-media extravaganza than RPG. I singled them out here because they're the console RPGs I have the most experience with.
And Jeff, I politely disagree. I liked Phantasy Star IV myself
While I did miss out on the RPGs of the pre-32-bit era (my first was FF7 on PSX, but then I went back and got/played someolder ones), I find that one of my favorite aspects of modern RPGs are their storylines. This usually means lots of CG added in, but if it improves the storyline or makes the emotional impact better, I see nothing wrong with it. There is a place for the old dungeon-crawling RPG where the storyline was a loosely held together plot for world destruction/domination by some big bad evil guy, but the way I see it, would you really want a developer to try and remake something that was done so perfectly already? Rather than reuse the same formular and change nothing, RPGs have evolved into something different from what they started out as. If you want an old-school RPG, you've already got them. If you want more of them, then you'll have to settle for what we now have. It should be noted that some of the people who made those RPGs back-in-the-day are involved in making modern RPGs, so it's not like some new guys came in and f'ed everything up. If people are buying the games, then the developers must be doing something right.
Final Fantasy IV had a great fear factor to every battle. You could be at level 99 and still be wiped out by some random enemies. Fear needs to be back in RPGs. I also prefer in game cut scenes if necessary, not the CG stuff. It kinda takes you out of the action. But for story, Final Fantasy VI had the best I think. I love the fact that the major villian(or so you thouhgt) was just window dressing until halfway through, then his stoopid lackey takes over the world. Cool stuff!
Heh, true enough Sean.
Best Final Fantasy IV moment:
Me: "Woohoo, I just kicked that behemoth's ass! Sure it cost half the party, but he's dead, dead!"
(insert battle swirl)
Me: "ARGH! TWO Behemoths!?"
(party dies a horrid death)
Oh, and Morgan, I respectfully disagree. I think the only way that new RPGs differ from old RPGs regarding their 'one ultimate baddy trying to take over the world' plots is that new RPGs make you wait half the game before you find out who it is . I imagine the next big advance will come when we don't find out until 3/4's of the way through...
Most RPGs are actually CPGs anyway, as in Character Playing Games. When was the last time you rolled your hero and took on his identity in a labyrinthe plot?
In FFIV I still remember taking bets who would beat the leviathan(or whatever it was) guarding the Masamune at the end of the game. My friends and I tried for a week to beat that thing...until I did one night. They paid me $20 each. And the treasures you got after those battles were always special to me...felt like something worthwhile since you barely surived to use it.
I tend to prefer my RPG's on the pc as well. I haven't played a console RPG that I really enjoyed since my SNES. Oh what I wouldn't give for a true sequel to the Secret of Mana though. I wish Square would put the damn FF line on hold for a while and give us a Mana game. I would be more excited about that than a new Zelda game!
I use to really like the old Square RPG's but not so much anymore...
Xenogears was amazing. Panzer Dragoon Saga needs a rerelease, since it had such a low print run. PC RPGS are of a different flavor than console ones. PC ones are much more in depth and complicated. Baldurs Gate is a godsend.
is getting Panzer Dragoon Saga worth it nowadays? I saw it the other day in a store for sale. Is saga what will be contained within orta? Is saga the first the second, or both? And yes that orta demo is fun as heck although the final big ship battle thingy kills me every time even though you all say it was easy:b
I still hold Final Fantasy VI to be my favorite game of all time. It combined everything you needed in a great console RPG: storyline, multiple characters, great fights, cool gagets, awesome armor and weaponry, and worlds to explore.
Final Fantasy X has come the closest to being a cool RPG. What's funny is that one of it's greatest strenghts is also one of its most annoying aspects, the neverending movie sequences.
And of course, what modern RPG contains the line:
"You spoony bard!!"
FF2 (US)...pure magic!
Panzer Dragoon Saga was an RPG while Panzer Dragoon and Panzer Dragoon II: Zwei were on rails shooters. Saga is highly revered, as are most saturn RPGs like Shining Force III, and Dragon Force. Unfortunatly, all had incredibly low print runs are some of the rarest 32bit games released in the US. I think Panzer Saga only had about 5000 copies released in the US, as it was one of the last saturn games, yet one of the most worshipped.
Give me the original Final Fantasy and Dragon Warrior any day.