Hitler; The Rise of Evil (1 Viewer)

[Norm]

Hitler's sexual perversions

There's a lot of debate on that, whether its true or not we will never truly know.

I will watch the rest tonight, I taped it.

 

[Brenton]

That makes me think of Chris Kattan's "gay Hitler" from Saturday Night Live.

Anyone seen that?

 

[Karl_Luph]

I was wondering if we had any college educated WW2 era historians that watched the show that could rate it for accuracy for the most part. It seemed like with all the time and dates captions on the screen , the director was at least ,trying to be accurate.

 

[MatthewA]

I thought the miniseries should have been four parts. His youth got, what, five minutes?

 

[John Watson]

Haven't seen part 2 yet, but would say its pretty intense, and for 3 hours of TV has some merit.

For a non-documentary, I think it did cover some of the social environment that made many susceptible to Hitler's demagoguery.

I do not know whethjer all the characters are real-life ones - particularly the industrialist who promotes Hitler, tells him to design the swasticka etc.

Is the cabaret singer a Sally Bowles - Marlene Dietrich type?

 

[Norm]

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The idea for the use of the swastika by the Nazis came from a dentist named Dr. Friedrich Krohn who was a member of the secret Germanen order. Krohn produced the design for the actual form in which the Nazis came to use the symbol, that is reversed, spinning in an anti-clockwise direction. As a solar symbol, the swastika is properly thought of as spinning, and the Buddhists have always believed the symbol attracted luck. The Sanskrit word "svastika" means good fortune and well being. According to Cabbalistic lore and occult theory, chaotic force can be evoked by revers- ing the symbol. And so the symbol appeared as the flag of Nazi Germany and the insignia of the Nazi party, an indication for those who had eyes to see, as to the occult nature of the Third Reich.

http://www.crystalinks.com/thule.html

 

[Ashley Seymour]

Hitler's sexual perversions


There's a lot of debate on that, whether its true or not we will never truly know

Of course we will never know. One lover turned up dead - (his neice) and other women who dated him tried (allegedly) to comit suicide.

We will never know a lot of things. No outside of Ted bundy and his victims was there to tell the tale, but that didn't stop Florida from putting him down.

The life of Hitler was a perversion. To leave out a central causal factor seems an attempt to sanitize the work in an effort not to offend some very young and old viewers. Some attempts to dramatize history are better left to the History Channel.

 

[Don Black]

After watching that could you seriously listen to anyone calling a current administration member 'a Nazi' or 'Hitler'

Certainly not. However, the parrallels are important in that it makes us aware of the government's use (any government) of "patriotism" to mask otherwise unconstitutional acts (German, U.S. Constitution...whatever). Extreme times do not call for extreme actions. They call for reasoned actions. Such is the moral of this mini-series.

What I found telling was that Germany is the one who likened the current administration's actions to the Nazi party. While over-the-line, their sensitivity to the subject is worth noting.

 

[Jack Briggs]

Let's not divert from the mini-series into current politics. Thanks.

 

[John Watson]

As someone who isn't particularly aware of sexual perversion as a significant factor in Hitler's character and what he did to develop fascism, I found the treatment in this mini-series of his relationship to women (preferring younger, dependent women) very interesting.

But any sexual perversion must be only a minor part of an incredible psychopathy in every aspect of his personality - he was resentful, bullying, vicious, but capable of toadying when it suited him. And his arrogance and incompetence attained world-historical dimensions in very short order. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, but Hitler was rotten to the core, long before he blustered and manipulated and forced his way into power. His putsch was a real snafu, he didn't have Lenin's luck. Whether he (later) surprise attacked the USSR because he was abused as a child, or because a professor told him to take up some other career than art, he still was a world class idiot.

And of course the world has not changed much - all the Idi Amins, Ceaucescus, Pol Pots, and Saddams can always find thugs and PR types eager to obey them. Lots of people still take someone who yells loudly as someone to take seriously.

Carlyle did an amazing job, possibly because he is small himself, and as Hitler, the "jumped up corporal", made his awful personality believable. I loved Peter O'Toole as Hindenberg. Was that his last role? All in all, I thought it was a good production. It was interesting that some of the ads were obviously hoping to take advantage of the feelings the program would arouse.

There was another good TV miniseries called The SS -a Portrait of Evil, a few years ago, and the movie "Stalin" (Stalin was played by Robert Duvall). It would be interesting to compare these productions, as studies in tyranny. It's a long time since I saw "Hitler - the Last 10 Days", but that should also be an interesting movie to watch after this series.

I believe there is a movie coming out that is expected to be controversial, because it will focus on Hitler as an artist, but I can't remember much about it.

 

[Norm]

Carlyle did an amazing job, possibly because he is small himself, and as Hitler, the "jumped up corporal"

Carlyle made Hitler look like Napoleon, Hitler was 5'8" Carlyle looks 5'5". The biggest myth is that all these Dictators were small, even Napoleon was average size for his time. It sure looked like they surround Carlyle with every tall actor they could find to try to emphasize this little man Dictator complex.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

The Jewish Anti-Defamation League came out strongly against this mini-series until the early (not evil enough) part of Hitler's life was heavily editted down. I didn't watch it because I'm against the principle of such special interest censorship, however that may be why the beginning felt unfocused to some of you.

(It's a shame too, since from the sound of things it would have been a great miniseries.)

 

[Norm]

Adam, I agree they change history to reinforce their point of view. Maybe I'm nitpicking but another thing I noticed they deliberately left Carlye's eyes brown, from all the accounts I've read, Hitler had piercing blue eyes and that his blue eyes were hypnotic, and some accounts demonic. But that helps when you see that Bum scene where he says to Hitler "I though you were a Jew" it does help reinforce, that brown eyes are "non-Aryan" and to the unknowing, Hitler had Jewish looks ala brown eyes.

 

[Norm]

I would like to add that I agree with George Lucas, with the way he's showing Anakin as a nice little kid that grows up to be a Villain, I don't think you need to over demonise to get to the heart of it. That all kids have the potential to become Good or Evil.

 

[MatthewLouwrens]

I believe there is a movie coming out that is expected to be controversial, because it will focus on Hitler as an artist, but I can't remember much about it.

The film is called Max and is about the relationship between the Jewish art dealer Max Rothman (John Cusack) and his relationship with his student, Adolf Hitler (Noah Taylor).

I didn't know that it had been released yet, but according to Rotten Tomatoes it was released in the US on 27 December 2002, and was released on video on 20 May 2003. So you should be able to pick it up. Rotten TOmatoes also gives it a 69% rating, so it's probably pretty good. I'll have to look for it when it gets released here in NZ.

 

[Norm]

I saw it. Max, is an Art movie in my opinion, don't look for any real history in it.

I just finished a real good book on Hitlers art and his use of art in the Third Reich, called Hitler and the Power of Aesthetics by Frederic Spotts.

 

[Ashley Seymour]

But any sexual perversion must be only a minor part of an incredible psychopathy in every aspect of his personality - he was resentful, bullying, vicious, but capable of toadying when it suited him.

Hitler's perversion was partly of having women urinate and defecate on him while he lay prostrate on the floor masterbating. The women were then instructed to kick him. Even he consider this behavior distasteful and he turned his self loathing and projected it upon others and groups - Jews, Gypsies, Commies, Capitalysts, Gays. His slaughter of Jews and Russians may have had a significant basis in his own self loathing.

Whether he (later) surprise attacked the USSR because he was abused as a child, or because a professor told him to take up some other career than art, he still was a world class idiot.

His attack upon the USSR probably had more to do with the defeat of Germany in WWI when an alliance of powers were able to over come the central position of Germany. Certainly the land area and population worked against Germany. He recognized and wrote in Mein Kampf that the land to the east in Poland, the Ukrain, and up to the general line of St. Petersburg (Leningrad), Moscow, and Volgograd (Stalingrad) would allow the German nation to expand and increase the pure Aryan population to the point where no nation could ever defeat Germany again. Again the central concept here is his fear and paranoia that allowed him - in a spirit of self defense - to strike out at others he feared were conspiring against him.

But any sexual perversion must be only a minor part of an incredible psychopathy in every aspect of his personality

One disturbing aspect of Hitler I learned taking a class in Abnormal Psychology, is that Hitler was not a psychopath - or sociopath in the current vernacular. A pop diagnosis would argue that his behavior was psychopathic, but he doesn't fit the textbook definition. Not that he didn't do horrific things, but they were manifestations of other personality faults.

 

[Lewis Besze]

I saw it. Max, is an Art movie in my opinion, don't look for any real history in it.

That was hardly the point it was trying to make.
While the story and the character of Max was fictional,it really tried to focus on Hitler's human side,something of that CBS garbage devoided completely.
for Max!

 

[Jim Spencer]

His attack upon the USSR probably had more to do with the defeat of Germany in WWI when an alliance of powers were able to over come the central position of Germany.

I don't see how this is true since in 1917 the Communist Revolution happened in Russia and they pulled out of WWI, leaving only the western front as the main battlefield.

I do believe it was his hatred of Communism and his ego after "Blitzkreiging" through Poland, the Low countries, and France.


As for the mini-series, I thought it was entertaining, but overall I didn't feel I had learned anything about Hitler that I didn't already know.

 

[Chris]

The movie was in large part a historical disaster. There were elements of truth (how can you really screw this up that bad; after all, some basic events, the evil of Hitler, his hatred, etc. are obvious) but some events were badly, badly done in such a way that it hinged on altering reality. It tended to butter up some characters to make them have appeal that they did not have, and to play their leaving of the party as some matter of soul searching..

The acting was great; but of course, as one of those people with my degrees in history, I always fear films like these.. because somewhere, some high school teacher is going to show this in a classroom for an hour or four in order to make up class time to show "The History of WWII"