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Help me find out which has the better comb filter

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Huw Williams, Oct 30, 2001.

  1. Huw Williams

    Huw Williams Agent

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    I'm at a loose end!
    I can't figure out which has the best comb filter!
    I have a Philips 28" PW6305 widescreen set connected with a Pioneer CLD-2950 (basically a euro clone of the CLD-704).
    I've tried connecting these items with standard composite and S-video cables, the nasty thin variety. But I'm not going to by a better cable untill I can find out which method is best.
    The best method of connection seems to be s-video, but I can't belive that a almost 7 year old in design player can beat a 1 year old TV? Would that be right?
    How can I find out which has the best filter? Any films I could watch to help me find out?
    Thanks in advance
    [​IMG] Yum!
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    UK Members: - Want to organise a meet? Goto -
    http://www.hometheaterforum.com/uub/...ML/000284.html
     
  2. Bryan Acevedo

    Bryan Acevedo Second Unit

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    Correct me if I am wrong, but when using an S-Video signal, you are bypassing the comb filter in the TV, and I don't know if there is a comb filter in a DVD player. I didn't think there was one. I thought it just took the signals off of the DVD and combined only what it needed for S-Video and sent it out, but not using a comb filter. I could be wrong though!
    It's funny, because when I bought my TV, I was so worried about getting the best comb filter. I ended up getting a Mitsubishi, but was worried that my comb filter was not as good as their next line up. It was only after this that I found out the comb filter is not even used at all in my setup (S-Video for everything, including satellite). So all this worrying over nothing!
    My point? I think the comb filter is a non issue when using S-Video or component cables. Only if you are using your TV for tuning or composite, then the comb filter in the TV will be used.
    Bryan
     
  3. Glenn Baumann

    Glenn Baumann Stunt Coordinator

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    Huw,
    Back in 1997 I purchased the Pioneer DVL-700 combo DVD/LD player which happens to incorporate a 3D motion adaptive comb filter which is pretty decent. I also purchased a Proscan 36" direct view TV at that time that had a 3D comb filter on board and also was curious as to which had the better comb filter. Well, I connected up both the S-video and the composite to the TV from the LD player and being that there is a signal present at both outputs simultaneously I was able to A/B back and forth instantly between the two inputs to the TV and was surprised to find that the Pioneer players comb filter was very much superior
    to the one in the excellent Proscan TV. For my test source I utilized the Men In Black laserdisc and went to the scene in the MIB headquarters where those decadent little ant looking aliens are smoking and drinking and yucking it up in the kitchen. In the kitchen on a shelf above the counter there was some boxes of cereal and when switching back and forth between the s-video and composite inputs the s-video rendered the lettering on those cereal boxes better than the composite... sharper, clearer and more distinct. I then went to a scene where there was a shot of a sidewalk outside during daylight and the surface texture of the concrete was rendered with much more detail using the s-video... the actual pebbles within the concrete became
    distinct as with the composite they were just a blur. The one scene in the movie that really signed and sealed it for me was a scene with a close head shot of Will Smith perspiring and again with the s-video connection the individual sweat droplets on his forehead exhibited a certain sparkle, transparency and three dimensionality that made those sweat drops look totally realistic. With the composite the sweat droplets were again just a blur. So the clear and decisive winner at least in my case was the superior Pioneer 3D motion adaptive comb filter as opposed to the Proscan's 3D comb filter. The real key is to just experiment with both, hopefully being able to truly A/B back and forth quickly so as to allow your brain a true comparison.
    Regards,
    Glenn
     
  4. Guy Kuo

    Guy Kuo Supporting Actor

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    Bryan he's asking about a LD player. The game is completely different from what we now worry about with DVD players. On LD's the video signal was stored on the disc as composite as opposed to DVD's where the signal is stored as component. The composite storage on LD meant that the S-video output had to be created by the LD player by separating the original composite signal. Some LD players had great separators, many had really bad ones. Then there were even players that always separated the signal to allow user adjustment of the video signal and then recombined them to recreate a new composite signal.
    The game is then to try a LD player via both its composite and s-video signals to see if the player or the tv had a better color separator. They you'd use that connection. Neither choice omitted a separation step. It was just a matter of finding where in your chain the job was best done. On a DVD, the data is stored as already separated component sigals so the cleanest connection is one which keeps them separate all the way - component. S-video and composite on a DVD player are created by combining the stored signals and those connections do take the raw signal and combine them. This forces the signal to require later separation or demodulation, degrading it.
    So he has to take various sample LD's and carefully evaluate the composite and s-video signals for sharpness, lack of rainbow artifacts in herringbones both with and without motion. My strongest suggest is to take the Video Essentials or VE LD and calibrate both the composite and S-video inputs of the display prior to making any comparisons. That will help level the field so you only see the connection differences, not your video settings. The SMPTE resolution pattern wedges in AVS are also useful for checking resolution of each connection.
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    Guy Kuo
    www.ovationsw.com
    Ovation Software, the Home of AVIA DVD
     
  5. Bryan Acevedo

    Bryan Acevedo Second Unit

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    Doh! I didn't know he was talking about a LD player! Thanks for the correction and the info!
    I never owned or even used an LD player before. It wasn't until DVD was coming out that I started to get into the whole HT scene!
    Thanks again,
    Bryan
     
  6. Allan Jayne

    Allan Jayne Cinematographer

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    When you have a combination LD/DVD player, you may have to run both composite and S-video cables to the TV, if it turns out that composite gives a better LD picture!
    (Some combo players have component outputs for DVD but nothing comes out of them when playing an LD. If that is the case and you wish to use component for your DVD's, you need both component and S' if the player comb filter is better, both component and composite if the TV comb filter is better.)
    Other video hints: http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/video.htm
     

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