Harman Kardon Owners (& others): Please compare PLIIx vs. Logic 7

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Arthur S, Jun 1, 2005.

  1. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

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    Those of you with both PLIIx and Logic 7, such as HK owners with recent receivers: have you compared Pro Logic IIx to Logic 7? Which do you prefer on DD soundtracks and why?

    Thanks
     
  2. Jerome Grate

    Jerome Grate Cinematographer

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    I'm an old HK owner and reading about most of the recent models released by HK not every model does Logic 7 on DD sources. I think the only model that may have slipped by with that function was the HK 7200. I don't think the 7300 doesn't do it and certainly the smaller models like the 630 etc don't do it.
     
  3. fernandos

    fernandos Auditioning

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    Actually,

    The AVR-8000, predecessor to the AVR-7200 was able to layer Logic 7 over DD but not the 7200. The AVR-630 didn't do it either but the 635 does for sure. If I'm not mistaken, the 7300 is able to do this also. Ask M-Code over on the avsforum. He can answer your questions for sure. I have the AVR-525 which was second from the top of the line 7200.[​IMG]
     
  4. Jerome Grate

    Jerome Grate Cinematographer

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    Forgot about the 8000.
     
  5. Kenneth Harden

    Kenneth Harden Screenwriter

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    Well, I have a 635 and unless I am mistaken, I can choose between IIx and Logic 7.

    I will say, listening to music CD's in Logic 7 Music mode is VERY impressive - and I am usually 100% against ANY sort of 'mode' other than straight DD, DTS, Stereo, etc.
     
  6. GregBe

    GregBe Second Unit

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    I have the DPR 2005, and it does not layer Logic 7 over Dolby Digital, so I can't help you there. I do like DPLIIx better than Logic 7 on CD's and satellite though. To my ears, Logic 7 is more fun with a lot more steering going on, which is what I thought I initially preferred. I now find myself choosing PLIIx more often now because it feels more "right" to me. It is more enveloping and natural, but still has a good amount of steering going on.

    Of course I reserve the right to change my mind at any time which normally do once every few weeks [​IMG]

    Greg
     
  7. Scott Simonian

    Scott Simonian Screenwriter

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    I have a 525. I really don't care too much for the Logic 7 on mine. I use it here and there for some music and two-channel sources. I mostly use PL2 for stereo sources like movies and games. (except Xbox)
     
  8. fernandos

    fernandos Auditioning

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    GregBe,

    I recently won one of the Marantz SR-8400s from UBID and I agree; PLIIX sounds impressive. I was spoiled by Logic 7 Cinema mode especially for converting analog cable channels to 7.1 (I have a 7.1) setup as well as Logic 7 music when listening to CDs.

    - After setting up my Marantz and doing so initial listening, I thought Logic 7s channel steering was a little better than PLIIX but after extended listening, I'm not so sure.

    - I won't knock HK or Logic 7. I have sale pending on my HK AVR-525; I wanted to upgrade to a pre-amp since I have a 2-channel and a 5-channel power amp but the Marantz deal was too good to pass up.

    - I wouldn't hesitate to buy another HK again; I thoroughly enjoyed my AVR-525. [​IMG] Unfortunately, my wife wouldn't let me keep both.
     
  9. ToddJ

    ToddJ Second Unit

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    Does any other receiver use Logic 7 other than Harmon Kardon?
     
  10. Kenneth Harden

    Kenneth Harden Screenwriter

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  11. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

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    Two little problems with the Lexicon receiver:

    1) $7,000 price tag.
    2) Doesn't have Dolby PLIIx.
     
  12. JeremyErwin

    JeremyErwin Producer

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    Lexicon and HK are owned by the same company (Harman International). Originally, Logic 7 was exclusive to Lexicon.
     
  13. Sean Buehrle

    Sean Buehrle Auditioning

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    i have the h/k avr 630 and it does have the logic7 sound mode, contrary to an earlier post.
    logic7 seems alot less bass oriented to me than PL2,kinda sounds like it may have an echo in it. it just seems softer.

    but ive been listening to vanhalen cds at -0 for a week now
    so that echo might permanently be in my head.
     
  14. Paul Clarke

    Paul Clarke Supporting Actor

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    Kenneth & Sean,

    All HK's have the simple form of Logic 7. What is in question is Logic 7 applied to DD. Only a few high end units have ever been capable of doing this.
     
  15. Kenneth Harden

    Kenneth Harden Screenwriter

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    OK, popped in 'The Incredibles'

    Obviously, I can play straight DD EX or the various 2, 3, 4-channel modes.

    If I press the Logic 7 button, I can play the movie in 'Logic 7 5CH Cinema' or 'Logic 7 5CH Music' - it is still using the DD stream.

    This help?
     
  16. shelly schachter

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    I have the HK 635 and upgraded from a Lexicon DC-1.

    the 635 will layer both L7 and DPL IIx over DD so it can be used to create 7 channels from DD.

    The L7 on the 635 has a very enhanced bass output which I find to be fantastic for video but not so for music, unless the cd is very bass shy.

    DPL IIx, on the other hand, is extremely natural with music and very bass shy for movies.

    although you can go into the manual setup menu to increase/reduce bass output for either/both L7 and DPL IIx, it will maintain these new settings for every variation of L7 or DD (which included DPL IIx). Changes to speaker levels (including sub) are done by sound mode, not by source, so you cannot have different settings for DD and for DPL IIx (and likewise, cannot have different speaker leels for L7 Muxic and L7 Cinema).

    But, I now can't listen to any movie without this incereased bass output of the HK635 L7 Cinema mode.

    Shelly
     
  17. Paul Clarke

    Paul Clarke Supporting Actor

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    Ken,

    Sorry...I lost track of your receiver. 635 has it...you lucky bum. I am comtemplating between the DPR2005 and the 635 to be used strictly as pre/pro. Since the non-digi 635 has more features than the 2005 for similar street money I am leaning heavily that way.
     
  18. Sean Buehrle

    Sean Buehrle Auditioning

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    im pretty sure the 630 does it also, heres a quote from a site reviewing the 630.(home theatre magazine) i think this is what you guys are talking about anyways.
    if im wrong ,shoot me down and ill drop it,LOL.

    This one's got the staple surround modes, plus a few more. There are two different modes for simulating surround-like effects from two speakers: Dolby Virtual Speaker, which acts directly on signals in Dolby's formats, and Harman's own VMAx. For headphone listeners, Dolby Headphone performs various feats of DSP magic seemingly in your head; it changes the quality of the space occupied by voices and instruments, although it also adds a processed feeling. A free software update via the RS-232 port will upgrade Dolby Pro Logic II to IIx. Harman's Logic 7 converts 2.0 to 7.1 with its own distinctive matrixing circuitry, which also appears in Lexicon products; H/K's are the only receivers to feature it.
     
  19. Paul Clarke

    Paul Clarke Supporting Actor

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    Sean,

    Again, that is different. Virtually all HK's can take what is called Dolby Surround (2.0) and matrix it under Logic 7. But taking DD which is 5.1 and layering L7 over it to create 7.1 from DD is a unique feature. I had forgotten that the 635 now has been given that capability which was previously found on only a few select models.

    I applaud HK for making this move...it may be a sign of even better things to come. The receiver wars are getting hotter than ever. [​IMG]
     
  20. fernandos

    fernandos Auditioning

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    Sean,

    I might be mistaken but I'm pretty sure the AVR-630 does not have the capability to layer Logic 7 over DD. As a matter of fact, I was close to buying the AVR-630 when I heard that HK would provide provide an upgrade to DPLIIX via the 630's RS-232 port but then I heard about the upcoming 635 which would have the room auto-eq as well as the ability to layer Logic 7 over DD.

    As it turned out, I caught the Marantz SR-8400 on UBID while I was comtemplating purchasing the HK AVR-635, the Marantz SR-7500 or a Pre-Pro. The UBID deal on the Marantz (8400) was too good to pass up for a receiver of it's quality. No room eq or calibration cabability but it has gold plated inputs and outputs, video up-conversion over component (80MHz), PLIIX, Circle Surround II (not as good as Logic 7 to me but not bad either), Cinema Re-EQ,. I do my own audio/video calibrations.

    So I sold my HK AVR-525 when I won the Marantz. The build quality is impeccable with it's double plated copper bottom plate, overall structural build, video off mode, etc., and it sounds awesome. Very similar to HK's sound but just a little bit more refined IMHO. However, I wouldn't hesitate buying another HK. I had both the AVR-520 & the 525 over a 3 1/2 period and I think they're awesome receivers.
     

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