H-K AVR520 vs. Yamaha V1200 vs. Marantz 7200

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Randy Prue, Jan 6, 2002.

  1. Randy Prue

    Randy Prue Stunt Coordinator

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    Interesting dilemma here:

    Using local "sale" (after Christmas) prices, I can group these three receivers as similar and similarly priced:

    Harman-Kardon AVR520: $1500. CAD

    Yamaha V1200: $1200. CAD

    Marantz SR7200: $1300. CAD

    All have discrete amp sections (HK, 5; YAM, 6; MAR, 6)

    Power:

    H-K: 75 X 5

    YAM: 80 X 6

    MAR: 105 X 6

    I think it's safe to assume that a Yamaha watt is worth more than a Marantz watt.

    I don't know about the Harman-Kardon. The thing that puzzles me is why the H-K would be $200-$300. more than the other two (each offering six channels and more better, and...)...

    Am I missing something? I never would have put H-K in the same "class" as either the Yammy or the Marantz.

    They all sound good and they all have similar features (except the H-K does not permit "B" speaker connection).

    Is H-K "better" than my perception? Are they simply over-priced? Anybody know?
     
  2. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    Marantz power ratings are just as conservative as Yamaha. Highly doubtful that the Yamaha's wattage rating is "more" than the Marantz. LISTEN to both of them. You will not even consider the Yamaha after that. I have a 6200 and it has MORE than enough power. I get no distortion all the way to rediculous, nearly painful sound levels. That is the same wattage as the 7200, though I have heard tell that the 7200 is actually 110. If I'm not mistaken, the 7200 does not have "b" speakers either, it has 2 room capability.

    As for the HK, I have heard they have quality issues, but they have strong amps and good sound. Not too familiar with their latest receivers, but their older stuff is very good.
     
  3. charles_w

    charles_w Stunt Coordinator

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    John,

    I have the 7200 it has both "B" speakers and multi-room
     
  4. Randy Prue

    Randy Prue Stunt Coordinator

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    Yes, it is the 6200 that does not have B speakers, which actually (since it's very similar to the 6200) makes the DIFFERENCE between the 6200 and the H-K even more pronounced (since the 6200 from Marantz also "beats" the H-K, and is about $500. less, instead of $250. less than the 7200).

    I don't know about quality issues with H-K. Haven't heard anything. Right now, I just can't see any reason for its apparently out-of-whack price (I have it here, and I enjoy it, but can take it back and exchange it for the Yamaha or Marantz, and of course a few hundred dollars).

     
  5. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    I had the same type of experiences with listening rooms, as fewer places carry Marantz, and/or competing brands. The places that carry the lower end Yamaha stuff don't carry any good speakers, and the places that carry the GOOD Yammies have speakers that cost more than my whole system... Yamaha makes damn good amps, but it's the sound in the end that I am not crazy about. Maybe it's just picky, but I am happy with Marantz, with Denon being a close second (I liked the 3802, but went with the 6200 for similar features and a lot less $$)
    So I listened to home systems of friends who had Marantz receivers as well as Yamaha and others. I settled on the 6200 because price/performance it is a damn good receiver. I might have waited and got the 8200, but that leaves me something to look forward to later in the year [​IMG]
    I have a few friends who swear by HK, but like you said, for the $$ vs features, I would choose something else.
     
  6. Randy Prue

    Randy Prue Stunt Coordinator

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    Yes, John, I wish I knew people who owned the current Yamaha and Marantz, for an in-home audition.

    One dealer here has (and flogs) Marantz, and a few Yamahas, but he tries to persuade you to buy Marantz, has the Yamahas connected to tiny speakers, and only has a few of the cheaper models.

    Another place has all the Yamaha, no Marantz. I have other places yet to visit.

    One Yamaha dealer will allow me to return it if not happy. I really like Pro Logic-II, so it'll be the V1200 (or a Marantz :b).

    I've pretty much decided that the H-K will go back (unless they offer a few hundred dollars off when I return it). The EZ-Set (mic and meter in the remote) must cost something, and it is really nice. I've heard that some of the internal components are heavy-duty, but I'm not sold yet.
     
  7. PatrickM

    PatrickM Screenwriter

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    Randy,

    I may get hammered for this but if your only picking between the Marantz and the Yammy get the Marantz even though it has had some reliability issues which you can find in a hardware area search. Yammy's just don't do it for me especially if you listen to music at all.

    In reality, if your looking at the Marantz then you really should look at the 3802. I just setup my friends and it does kick.

    Patrick
     
  8. Charles J P

    Charles J P Cinematographer

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    Dang, I'm totally shocked here. I got a Maranz SR-6200 based on reputation alone. It sounded very flat, no highs, and definately no lows. I also had all the background noise problems as well as the lines in the S-video switching. After bringing 3 units home for testing, my dealer offered to trade me out to a different line. I selected the Yamaha RX-V1200 after doing in-store comparisons between the RX-V1000 and the the 6200 while trying to decide what was wrong with the Marantz's. After setting up and "breaking in" the Yammie, I did all my critical listening tests, and I must say, that even outside of all the quality problems with the Marantz, the Yamaha makes it look like shit. The Yamaha is so much fuller. It has better bass, more defined midrange, and better highs. It just has all the punch the Marantz didnt. It is especially shines with classical music which typically has much greater dynamic range than pop, rock, even rap... and is much more demanding on amps. I am convinced that Marantz just missed the mark this year and was trying too hard to get to market first. I have now had the Yamaha for a few months, and I can honestly say that aside from my SVS, it is really the only home theater purchase I have made that I have no buyers remorse at all for. I guess I feel lucky that my dealer heard the same problems I did with the marantz and just said forget it, lets get you into something else. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  9. Chris Trot

    Chris Trot Stunt Coordinator

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    I've been looking into the Yamaha and the HK models you are looking at and I found them both at etronics.com for much cheaper.
     
  10. RobP

    RobP Stunt Coordinator

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    I have an HK 520, and while I think its a very nice unit I think the msrp is a little too much $. But I bought it off the internet for a MUCH cheaper price so I really have no complaints.

    Rob
     
  11. Jagan Seshadri

    Jagan Seshadri Supporting Actor

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    I've heard from people that the H/K's aren't as well made today as they used to be. And I know the Marantz x200 series have a tendency to short out, catch fire, have poor digital sync, have poor S-Video switching.

    CharlesJP is right. The Yamaha RX-V1200 is great stuff. And although it may seem like a "kicking-the-tires" approach, the H/K front panel is plastic, and the Yamaha 1200's panel is metal.

    Anyway, hope you find something you're happy with. For the record, I have no regrets about getting the 1200. I just wish everything was priced like the Marantz 5200!!

    -JNS
     
  12. Randy Prue

    Randy Prue Stunt Coordinator

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    Wow!

    Chris and Rob:

    I failed to mention that I'm shopping in CAD, so... $1,500. is about $1,000. or $9xx. for the H-K. I think they may drop it to the $1k. mark or so when I try to return it (esp. if I'm gonna buy Yammy or Marantz, which they don't sell, so they lose the sale).

    Hmmm...went to etronics.com. The Yamaha V1200 at $670. US and the H-K AVR520 at about the same price... means they each should weigh in around $1,000.-$1,100. CAD.

    PatrickM:

    I take it you mean the Denon 3802. I looked it up. I think the 2802 compares favourably in price and features (and probably quality) to the Yamaha/Marantz. What is so particularly nice about it that you like so much?

    Charles J P:

    The V1200 is the Yamaha I would buy (I really like ProLogic-II). You referred to lines in the S-video switching. What is this? Visible lines? It sounds like you heard of problems, that the dealer had heard of the same problems... if this is the case, would you care to elaborate? If you think it's too much for the forum, you could e-mail me. I really WANT to be convinced to buy the Yamaha (I'm way over my original $500. budget here, too, but stopped caring about that a few weeks ago).

    The sound from the better amps is just so nice! It took me two months to find speakers I really like (Athena AS-F2). Oh, and I was wondering what speakers you use.

    I also like to take a full orchestra on CD or DVD to demo everything, along with some jazz, where the range of instruments really reveals a lot (especially about speakers).

    I've packed up a newly revised assortment of test music to head off to the higher-end dealers with, over the next couple of weeks.

    The way you describe the sound of the Yamaha is the type of sound I'm looking for. I actually liked the sound from the Marantz, but it was their $3,000. job.

    At some point, I'd like to figure out what kind of price I should expect to pay for this stuff. The Yamaha V1200 lists at $1,400., was marked down to $1,200 after Christmas, as soon as it arrived. It was newly arrived and $200. off. If I can get 1/3 off list, I'd be around $1,000.

    Any experience with that? (anybody)
     
  13. PatrickM

    PatrickM Screenwriter

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    Yes, it was the Denon 3802 I was speaking of. Personally I find that the sound quality of the Denon is very good. It also has 7 channels of amplification and a decent universal remote.

    The features are pretty comparable with the others since it has DTS-ES matrix and discrete as well as a non-certified DD-EX mode. It also has DPLII which is very good in my opinion. I was surprised by the ability to steer a two channel source with DPLII since I don't have it yet on my Denon 5800.

    To compare the 3802 and the 5800 I would say that the 3802 is pretty good but not as full sounding as the 5800 but at less than third the price it does pretty well.

    Patrick
     
  14. Charles J P

    Charles J P Cinematographer

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    The S-video problem was with the Marantz. Not sure if you picked up on that so I just wanted to clarify. It basically had vertical bars "bleeding through" in all S-video sources that you switched throuhg the reciever. This is suposedly a known problem with Marantz and has been fixed, so I wouldnt let that be a completely deciding factor, but for me having taken home three units that all had it, it was too much of an indication of overall quality. Marantz has not officially addressed the background noise issue AFAIK. This is when you get hissing noise from the speakers when playing weak sources (like older CDs) that are mastered at a lower level and require you to turn up the amp more to get an acceptable volume. I would get hissing sound out of my center and surrounds during stereo playack. This should not happen. The Yamaha does not have either of these problems.
     
  15. ChrisAG

    ChrisAG Supporting Actor

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    Charles JP,

    You seem to have changed your tune a bit regarding the Marantz - your first review was completely positive (I assume you compared it to other makes before buying). Then, after getting the Yamaha, you said the Yam performed HT tasks better than the Marantz and had a touch more bass. Fair enough. But now you are completely trashing the Marantz sound, even leaving aside the quality issues?

    Some people like to believe that whatever they happen to have at the moment is the absolute best...

    I'm not trying to flame you here. You have done some research I value your opinion, but since you had a rotten experience with your 6200, is there a bit of bias creeping in?

    I have had those same experiences. My first 6200 had the S-video problem. The second had pops with source changes. The third (5200 this time) also had pops. I tried the Onkyo 797 and while I was really impressed with its HT performance, in the end it was too expensive and didn't sound as good as the 6200 in stereo. I have since gone back to my trusty Yamaha RX-V390 pro-logic.

    When shopping for a replacement I auditioned the Yam 1000, but in stereo mode it sounded too thin to me. HT performance was great, but I was disappointed in stereo performance. Maybe the Yam matches your speakers better.

    However, if Marantz can cure the problems I'll buy another unit. The sound in Source Direct mode can't be beat, in my opinion.
     
  16. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    I'm in agreement with Chris AG here, and I want to qualify what I've been saying about Marantz' sound. I listen to my CDs in Stereo via analog, and Marantz has the cleanest 2ch sound of any of the receivers mentioned. HT is GOOD on the Marantz, but if I were building an HT only system I would probably go with Denon or a higher up Onkyo (898, 989). Since I listen to a fair amount of music though, I wanted the "warmth" (as it has been called) that Marantz imparts. I don't know if it is something added or the LACK of added information, but stereo music and source direct music sound exceptional, even on the lowest models Marantz makes. Far better than their competitors in the same price category, and often better than most with higher prices. Someone said that Marantz' circuitry may enhance mid and low frequency intentionally (I'm not sure about this), but whatever is going on, it sounds right to my ears. The brrightness of Yamaha is often mistaken for detail, but I am not pleased with that sound (but the amps are definitely powerful). That is not to say I think Yamaha doesn't know what they are doing, their sound just doesn't suit my taste. I have a Yamaha sub and I am extremely pleased and impressed with it.

    I also agree that the gear connected to ANY receiver is also a large factor, as well as the LISTENER'S EARS. One brand of speaker may work very well with one particular reciever or brand and not as well with another.

    Basically what I am getting at is, find what makes you happy and go with it.
     
  17. Randy Prue

    Randy Prue Stunt Coordinator

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    For me, this is all valuable input, and I thank you all.

    Quality of sound, reliability, and things I had not yet considered (video switching is a secondary, but important function).

    I'm doing my testing primarily with my own CDs, in stereo (trying for speakers similar to my own), then giving the digital processors a listen (PL-II, DSP, etc.).
     
  18. Brad Newton

    Brad Newton Second Unit

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    How does the Yahama 1200 compare to the Onkyo 898? What about the bandwidth for switching?
     
  19. Jason Lundberg

    Jason Lundberg Auditioning

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    Ijust bought a Yamaha at an after XMAS sale and payed 850 for it (the RX-V1200). I got it at Soundtrack (Ultimate Electronics)

    Jason
     
  20. Nicholas A. Gallegos

    Nicholas A. Gallegos Stunt Coordinator

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