entry level receivers, HK avr-225 vs denon avr-1803?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Myo K, Apr 17, 2003.

  1. Myo K

    Myo K Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    0
    which would be more fitting for me?

    how accurate are dennon receiver specs compared to hk? my understanding is that hk actually exceeds the listed wattage specs by a few watts-while dennon's listed watts are a bit iffy, not really outputting what is listed.

    the hk lists at 55 watts per channel
    and the dennon lists 80 watts per channel.

    how accurate would you consider the rating for the dennon? as an entry level denon i dont know if the ratings should be taken seriously, same goes with hk, but i think id find hk closer to the real output that is listed for the receiver.

    dts es and dd ex does not matter to me, im perfectly fine with a 5.1 set up at the moment, so what i want to know is between the two models, which receiver provides the most reliable performance and quality?

    the 225 and 1803 are both listed at 500 dollars, but the denon offers 6.1 decoding as opposed to hk's 5.1 decoding and 25 watts more power,

    since im new to the audio world, id like to know how the pricing of these companies work..

    am i just paying extra money for nothing with the hk? or is it the other way around in which im sacrificing performance, and false power specs, with the dennon?

    which receiver would be the best for me? if the denon will at least output a minimum of 55 watts @ 8ohms through 6 channels continuously with head room to spare, then ill get the denon, its hard to believe that the denon can out 80 watts through 6 channels sontinuously for a 500 dollar entry level receiver.

    ill be using it a lot for music, so i need a clean sound, itll will be used for movies too, but mainly for music.

    is the denon 1803 receiver high current like the harmon kardons also?





    ---------


    another entry level model im looking into is the pioneer 912k, which seems to offer an abundance of feature for 300 dollars? listed at 110 watts through 6 channels? now i dont know if this reciever is just spewing out marketing mumbo jumbo, because i cant possibly conceive why anyone would pick an hk or denon if theres a reciever like 912k in the sub 500 dollar price range.

    i assume, the quality of sound and performance was greatly sacrificed to fit all that into a 300 dollar reciever? i keep reading about fake specs by companies low end receivers, so i would assume that the hk would produce better power output over the pioneer? they may say its 110 watts but most likely itd be 40 watts x 6? am i correct in my assumptions?

    ive been force feeding my brain with all this audio research to prevent me from falling victim to marketing hype or getting ripped off [​IMG]


    forgive me if my questions are sound silly, but im an audio noob, i hope you guys can bare with me, as i expand my knowledge about audio [​IMG]
     
  2. Stephen Hopkins

    Stephen Hopkins HW Reviewer
    HW Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,598
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've had the Denon 1803 and the Pioneer 811S (2002 model VERY similar to the 912K) and both are solid performers. One thing to take into consideration is your personal taste in sound. The HK will offer a warmer, more musical sound. While Denon is also known for a warm/laidback sound, the 1803 can come across as being a little thin at times. The 912K will sound neutral, but also a bit thin in 2ch listening.

    The 912K will probably put out around 60-70 watts of power w/ all channels driven full range. I've seen numbers for the 811S in this range which is where my assumption comes from. The THD will be noticably higher than the HK though. I don't know about the output of the Denon, but It always had plenty of power for my JBL N28/N24/N-Center setup in a 11x13 room, as did my 811S. I noticed VERY minimal differences in the sound of the 1803 and 811S.

    Personally I would go w/ the 912K. At $300 it would make a great feature rich entry level receiver and a very capable pre-pro. Later on you could add amps for the mains or all channels and have a much better sounding setup thatn the HK 225 or Denon 1803, as well as the ability to upgrade to 6.1/7.1 in the future. The Denon does not have pre-outs and the HK 225 doesn't have EX/ES proccessing.

    Ofcorse most of this is subjective and to give any "definitive" answers more info about your speakers, room size, and personal tastes are needed. Regardless, I hope this helps [​IMG]
     
  3. Myo K

    Myo K Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    0
    stephen, thank you for taking the time to reply, its very much appreciated!

    i will be using the receiver for mostly soft music listening(slow jams), and loud dance music, i had a kenwood 6070, and that made a clean enough sound for me to enjoy my music, though it felt it under powered my speakers.

    then i got the pioneer 411 on an impulse buy, and that sounded like a piece of trash on my speakers, everything sounded distorted and harsh, and there was a slight hiss,

    if the hk will provide smooth clean sound for music, i think ill get the 225, i fear that the 912 k will not properly power my speakers, and its probably a bad choice for music listening, music will be the main use of this receiver and movies second.


    btw 6.1 would be useless in my room, since my room is only 15'x15' with omni polar speakers, i already fell like my fronts are too close to my center, (its as if the three speakers generate one massive sound bubble. i dont think having a rear center wouldnt be very usefule in my room [​IMG]
     
  4. Thomas Nichols

    Thomas Nichols Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 1999
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have the AVR125 and find that it has all the power that I need. My speakers are not hard to drive. I never really crank the sound, but it plays louder than I need. It is very good with music and movies.
     
  5. Greg Hart

    Greg Hart Auditioning

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2003
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Myo K,

    I have the H/K 320 which is listed at 55per. Very conservative rating. The sound as stated above is very clean. If I were considering a receiver purchase in this price range the H/K would top the list. They are feature packed and also have 7.1 capabilities using additional amps should you go that route in the future. Granted there have been some reliability problems but the most recent units seem to have a better track record.

    Good Luck with your purchase

    Not being real familiar with the other models I can only give opinion on the H/K. Any way you go I don't think you will be dissapointed.

    edit:

    Myo, I absolutely agree with you on the 6.1/room size. 5.1 is plenty for these rooms.

    Greg
     
  6. David G Greene

    David G Greene Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2002
    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    0
    I own both H/K 220 & 110. They both are very clean sound for musuc & movies. I never own a Denon,but I have own Yamaha & Onkyo. I like HK much better.
     
  7. David G Greene

    David G Greene Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2002
    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    0
    I own both H/K 220 & 110. They both are very clean sound for musuc & movies. I never own a Denon,but I have own Yamaha & Onkyo. I like HK much better.
     
  8. Stephen Hopkins

    Stephen Hopkins HW Reviewer
    HW Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,598
    Likes Received:
    0
    I seriously doubt the Kenwod 6070 was underpowering your speakers. It was tested at an honest 92 wpc w/ all channels driven full range by Sound & Vision. Whether or not you liked it's particular sound is a personal prefference, but i doubt lack of power is an issue.

    One more receiver you may want to look at is the Sony DA2ES. It's another very capable receiver available for under $500 online, and has the same processing and eq/customibility as the higher end 4ES and 7ES. I'm a very happy 4ES owner and the quasi-parametric eq built in to the entire ES line will allow you to taylor the receiver to the type of sound you like and help flatten out room-induced peaks and lulls.

    Hope this helps [​IMG]
     
  9. Chris Sherman

    Chris Sherman Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 1998
    Messages:
    378
    Likes Received:
    0
    I own and like the HK 225 very much , for a good review of receivers check this link. http://electronics.cnet.com/electron...ml?tag=stbc.gp
    I use it in my bedroom system and it sounds every bit as good as my other two receivers , which were $800 Onkyos. I paid $350.00 for my AVR 225.
     
  10. Myo K

    Myo K Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    0
    stephen h,

    im sorry im fairly new to the audio world, the 6070 was my first receiver i used with my speakers, and i had a friend whos into speakers and audio components come by and test it out.

    i played the receiver at light listening levels, i didnt need it too loud, and i always thought it sounded great, then when my friend test it out, he told me to raise the volume, and after a certain point in volume level, the detail and calirty of the sound had a dramatic jump almost instantaneously, with no gradual change, just an instant jump. this clarity and detail was non-existant at my regular listening levels, and i had to actually play them at somewhat med-loud listening levels to hear it.

    then he informed me that it sounds like the receiver was underpowering the speakers and i had to play the volume at a specific sound level to get the full sound.

    i was also informed by people in general that a lot of marketing comes into play, isnt it always better to trust your ears, then to trust a review or company specs?

    of couse my ears are no where near experienced enough to know what underpower sounds like, since this was my first receiver. i do know it gets loud when i pass a certain volume level.

    i eventually had to return the receiver because i kept getting popping noises when i raised an lowered the volume, tested it with two different speakers and found it was the recievers fault and not the speakers.

    i asked around and asked sales people and got different answers, from the receiver being low current amp, to clippin from underpower, to bi-product of digital amplification.

    how this receiver got thx certification? i do not know, how its able to sell for sub 300 dollar price range and still maintain thx certification? i do not know. personally, i think a lot of it may be marketing? im the last person that should be speaking about the subject since im fairly Noob to audio.

    but i do know 3 things for sure, this amp is low current, i got popping interference from raising and lowering the volume and i get a massive jump in sound clairty instantaneaouly after turning the vilume up past a certain number. stephen maybe you can enlighten me on what may have been the problem if it werent a power output issue?

    because this experience has made me paranoid abo purchasing my next receiver, i saw that this reciever was rated at 92 watts per channel also, and considering that i m ay get the hk listed at 55 watts? will this mean that ill have a worse perfomance then kenwood 6070?

    from research and feed back i have a feeling that the detail level issue will not be a problem with the hk, since its high current and the power is seems to be listed consertively with a very clean output.

    ----

    on antoher note, i keep reading about hk receiver suffering from build problems or quality issues? what are these problems people keep refering to?
    --

    i pretty much have my heart set on the 225, ill most likely get that receiver, regarding music, hk is the only brand i keep seeing brought up over and over again throughout several audio forums and reviews. ill post an impression shortly if i get the receiver [​IMG]
     
  11. Stephen Hopkins

    Stephen Hopkins HW Reviewer
    HW Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,598
    Likes Received:
    0
    The 6070 originaly hit stores at the $600 price point. It's available around $300 right now IF YOU CAN FIND IT because the new Kenwood line is supposed to hit stores next week.

    That said, the instant jump down in sound quality makes me think that you just reached the point where your speakers were reaching their excursion limit, causing distortion. Unless you have very low sensitivity speakers or in a very large room, most receivers won't "underpower" your speakers.

    The popping when raising and lowering volumes has come up before and isn't demonstrated in all 6070s, it's evidently a flaw that some have but most don't.

    As for the HK 225, my guess is it will not perform worse than the 6070. Power is not a huge issue and the HK's are conservatively rated as mentioned before. The HK will probably sound more musical, a bit warmer and more laid back. This won't be because of power, it will be because different amps sound different. If you go w/ the 225 you may be making a step forward in sound quality, but taking a step back in processing. This is a judgement call on your part and if music is a priority for you, the HK may be the way to go.

    Most of the quality control problems that plagued HK were with the x20 series and I haven't read any repeated reports of problems with the x25 line.
     
  12. Myo K

    Myo K Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    0
    im confused,

    does the excursion limit refer to the time right before the coils in the drivers are going to blow? i dont think that was the case, at least not to my knowledge, there was no distortion and if the volume was raised significantly higher, it was still clear with no distortion.

    how can you tell when the speakers are hitting their escursion limit?
    --

    aha! im not the only one that had the popping noises, so im not crazy then hehe, what caused the popping noises? was it poor build quality?

    thanks for the info steve, im heading off to cc and bb right now
     

Share This Page