dts setup question, sub level.

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by MichaelO, Jun 8, 2001.

  1. MichaelO

    MichaelO Stunt Coordinator

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    Hello there. Got a quick a question concerning dts setup.
    I am using a Panasonic RV-80 DVD player and it has a dts decoder built in. I have PCM selected for dts in the players setup menu so that I can use it as my dts decoder, my pre/pro has 5.1 inputs to take advantage of an outboard processor.
    Anyway, I have been using it for a while now with no problems. However, I read that dts needs a 10dB LFE boost that DD doesn't. Should I set my processor up so that the sub is 10dB's louder when playing a dts movie than a DD one? The players setup menu allows you to adjust channel levels but the max addition you can add to the sub is +6. So I can adjust another +4 over the DD setting through my pre/pro. Is this correct?
    Basically I am using my pre/pro to decode DD tracks and have calibrated DD so that my sub level on my pre/pro is set to 0 which is actually +8dB over the other channels at reference. (I prefer a little more oomph from the sub so I increased it by 8dB). Now for dts I have the sub at a +6 via the DVD players channel setup menu and an additional setting of +4 within my pre/pro, a total of 10dB increase over the DD settings. Does this sound right or have I just completely confused everyone here?
    Just trying to compensate since neither the player or my pre/pro offers a dts LFE boost. Was hoping that the LFE boost/gain? would be the same as increasing the sub level.
    If someone can clear this up for me I would certainly appreciate it.
    Thanks,
    Michael
     
  2. Gregory H

    Gregory H Auditioning

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    Lawdy... lawdy !
    Pray tell where, like form which info source did you read
    that "Dts should have a 10db Boost ?" I am most interested.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  3. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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    quote: I read that dts needs a 10dB LFE boost that DD doesn't.[/quote]
    False- both DD and DTS are mastered in such a way as the DD or DTS processor will apply a 10db LFE boost. This usually happens at the decoding stage and would be completely unseen and unnoticed by you.
    BOTH DTS AND DD 5.1 REQUIRE A 10db BOOST APPLIED AT THE DECODING STAGE. ALL DECODING CHIPS FOR THESE CODECS WILL AUTOMATICALLY APPLY THE BOOST (UNLESS THERE IS AN LFE PAD, IN WHICH CASE YOU CAN REMOVE THE BOOST).
    http://www.hometheaterforum.com/uub/Forum14/HTML/039218.html
    AIM: VinceMaskeeper
    "If you want everything to be cheap then you're in the wrong hobby." -Rob Gillespie
    "we are phallus of the musical genitalia" Face Whores by GT3K . This is the best song I have ever heard- Download it RIGHT NOW!
     
  4. MichaelO

    MichaelO Stunt Coordinator

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    Vince, thanks for the reply. I think I have all my other speakers set up correctly, I guess I just got confused when what I was reading mentioned the LFE level and not volume. Because I looked on my pre/pro and there is an LFE setting (seperate from the channel level itself) that ranges from -10 to 0. It is set to 0 for DD since it only decodes DD. However, there is no such setting within the DVD players menu (and my Denon doesn't offer that LFE setting when you are using an outboard processor). Only a sub level setting. What I read stated that DD LFE level should be set to 0 but that dts has its LFE level set at essentially -10 and needed a 10dB boost. I think that perhaps I know just enough to be dangerous [​IMG]
    Heck, maybe I misread what I was reading. What is the LFE setting for? Since I can't use the one in my Denon for dts and the DVD player I am using doesn't offer this setting does that mean the appropriate setting is being done automatically by the DVD player?
    I guess I read this and thought that I wasn't sending enough bass to the sub.
    Thanks again for taking the time to help me out.
    Michael
     
  5. Richard_M

    Richard_M Second Unit

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    My Yamaha amp has individual settings for DD & DTS LFE level, and when I calibrated my system the DTS is 9dB higher than the DD setting, this could also be due to differences caused by the decoding chips.
    This is also been documented at the attached site
    http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/3401/VE_995.html
    where he has DD set at -4 and DTS at +6.
    This could also be an inherent problem with Yamaha amps
    Regards,
    Richard
     
  6. Kevin_W

    Kevin_W Second Unit

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    Vince, there was a thread many months ago where this same topic was discussed. In it I could have sworn that in fact it was agreed that a +10 LFE boost was in order for the DTS tracks. I even remember someone posting what their Denon manual said and it eluded to, in its encryptic fashion, that a +10 boost was needed. I thought you were one of the people that agreed that this needed to be done (I apologize if I misinterpreted what you meant).
    Now since there isn't a DTS calibration DVD out yet, I can really only go by my ears and I can honestly say that prior to that thread, I always felt the LFE output of DTS couldn't touch that of the DD soundtracks. After reading that thread I started applying the +10 boost on the DTS titles and then it was equal to that of DD... to my ears anyway.. [​IMG]
    Kevin
    ------------------
    Guess What!? I got a fever. And the only perscription is more cowbell! -Christopher Walken SNL
     
  7. Wayne Bundrick

    Wayne Bundrick Cinematographer

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    It depends on your system, Kevin. If now you find the LFE of DTS to be on the same level as DD, then you probably have it correct now (presuming the DD level is correct).
    DTS 5.1 movies require the same 10dB boost that Dolby Digital decoders have. But DTS 5.1 music should not have the 10dB boost.
     
  8. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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  9. John GB

    John GB Stunt Coordinator

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    OK, my Yamaha also has seperate LFE level settings for DD and DTS. I only have Video Essentials which is DD only.
    How do I calibrate my DTS LFE levels. Should I use internal test tones only? Does the DTS optimode on some DVDs help in calibrating the DTS LFE level?
    Is there a DTS calibration DVD I should buy?
    Thanks in advance for any info on this subject.
    ------------------
     
  10. David Judah

    David Judah Screenwriter

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    The Ultimate DVD Platinum has seperate test tones for DD & DTS.
    As others have mentioned, differences are hardware dependent. For some processors, Yamaha is the one I have had experience with, the default levels are not the same and need to be adjusted.
    If you don't have access to the Ultimate DVD you can get close with one of Warner's combo discs(Twister, Lethal Weapon, Interview With A Vampire)because they were encoded using the same master at the same levels.
    DJ
     
  11. Espen Braathen

    Espen Braathen Stunt Coordinator

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    This depends on the hardware.
    * Some hardware does not use the +10 dB LFE on DTS at all. Result: weak LFE on movies.
    * Some hardware uses +10 dB LFE all the time. Result: overpowered bass on some DTS music CDs.
    * Some hardware has separate +10 dB LFE (DTS Movie) and +0 dB LFE (DTS Music) modes.
    DTS latest rule (judging by some official notes sendt to manufacturers last year) is to use +10 dB on all DTS material, thus it will be necessary to lower the LFE setting by -10 dB when playing DTS music CDs.
    Take a look at the recent Denon manuals; like the new AVR-4802 to read about this.
    To quote from the manual:
    "LFE (Low frequency Effect):
    This sets the level of the LFE (Low Frequency Effect) sounds included in the source when playing program sources recorded in Dolby Digital
    or DTS.
    If the sound produced from the subwoofer sounds distorted due to the LFE signals when playing Dolby Digital or DTS sources when the peak
    limiter is turned off with the subwoofer peak limit level setting (system setup menu), adjust the level as necessary.
    Program source and adjustment range
    1. Dolby Digital:-10 dB to 0 dB
    2. DTS Surround:-10 db to 0 dB
    When DTS encoded movie software is played, it is recommended that the LFE LEVEL be set to 0 dB for correct DTS playback.
    When DTS encoded music software is played, it is recommended that the LFE LEVEL be set to -10 dB for correct DTS playback."
    Espen
     

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