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DTS NEO or DPL II or ? When Going from 2 Channel Source to 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1? (1 Viewer)

W

Will

I have the choice of using DPL II or DTS NEO and as well as some other processing modes on the Outlaw 950, to convert 2 channel music or 2 channel video (recorded sometimes in DPL) to my 5.1 channel home theater. These days I seem to prefer DTS NEO-M for music, over DPL II-M. These are just my preliminary results, and I haven't experimented with the many parameters DPL II offers. Maybe am overlooking some of what DPL II does. My most critical music listening is with music not video. So far anyway, for music that comes in as 2 channel (like CD's and FM radio), I gravitate towards DTS NEO-M rather than DPL II-M. I have just 5.1 so maybe my results would differ with 6.1 or 7.1 home theater.

Anybody else have opinions about DPL II versus the other processing modes?
 

Gary Kellerman

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jul 30, 1999
Messages
127
Although I do not own this device nor own a device with DTS NEO/DPL2, I have read that some owners may like the Cirrus Logic Extra Surround circuit. Have you tried that with music. This circuit may be a "layover type" like Logic 7 on a Lexicon so I imagine I would believe you would lay this over a two channel mode and see what happens.
 
W

Will

I could not get Cirrus Logic Extra Surround to work on 5.1. Maybe it needs more channels than the 5.1 channels my home theater has.

Regarding how it relates to logic 7, which generates 7 unique channels, I do recall reading that the 950 generates 6 unique channels at most (perhaps dual mono in the rears?) but am not sure if this is still true, or not.
 

Jed M

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2001
Messages
2,029
Will, I am not a fan of DPL II. I heard it first when I upgraded my parents defunct receiver with the kenwood vr509 last November. I was not impressed at all, even more so with music. I did however like their "circle surround". When I received the 950 I discovered the same thing and I use DTS NEO for my tv viewing and I use stereo or 5.1 surround for music listening. It just depends what we are doing. Knowing this back in November made the wait for the Outlaw a little easier since the only reason I would upgraded before would have been for DPL II. I only have 5.1 also so I can not comment on cirrus but I look forward to finding out. I am curious as to what other people think about DPL II as well.
 

RAF

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 3, 1997
Messages
7,061
Will,

I just submitted a comment on the Anthem/950 thread that has some relevance here. Forgive me for a bit of "cut and paste" but lots of what I wrote there addresses the topic here as follows:

----------------------------------------------------------

The only thing I've really used DPL2 for with my 950 so far is when using my DPL LDs. I feel it improves the sound. However, this is a personal preference (as most of these mode enhancements are) so your mileage may vary.

And, to be honest, with so many DVDs on my table, most of my viewing of LDs recently was to check out the performance of the 950 during the beta test, so I'm not a big user of DPL2 yet.

And, the more I've used the 950 (over three months now) the more I'm finding that for what I call "no brainer situations" I prefer the mode that the source was originally in (DTS in DTS, DD5.1 in DD5.1, DTS-ES in DTS-ES, etc.) rather than trying to enhance the modern formats with other processing. The only obvious (to me) exception is listening to DPL in DPL2. The 950 offers a quick A/B comparison. When I listen to a DPL disc in DPL and then switch to DPL2 it opens up considerably.

Also, as more and more people start using the 950 there is a much wider user base to formulate opinions as to personal preferences. With so many source modes and so many processing modes the number of combinations possible makes it difficult for one person to spend significant time listening to everything in every possible combination. That's where suggestions such as, "Hey, have you tried listening to X in Y mode" can be helpful in sorting things out to some extent. You may find a combination that you haven't tried that you prefer.

My 2 cents.

---------------------------------------------

The only other thing I would add is the comment that I've also noticed that not every mode on the 950 is available for every sound source. It's somehow tied to what is needed as an input in order to produce a specific output. I'm not complaining about this, but I really would be curious to learn exactly what it is about a source that lets it, or prevents it, from allowing you to use a particular sound mode for output.

When I was beta testing the 950 I thought it would be fairly simple for me to map all the possibilities but I soon realized (I think) that there are so many combinations and variables that it would be a formidable task.

At some point I would hope there would be some "technical paper" or similar (or that someone else would figure out what the choices are) to clarify this a bit. While I like the flexibility that 950 offers in sound modes sometimes too many choices can lead to some confusion as far as what's best for each situation. There's always the thought in the back of one's mind, "Am I using the best choice here?"

And, in conclusion, this might also be tied to the characteristics of your other equipment and, of course, your personal preferences. In other words, different strokes for different folks.
 
W

Will

I prefer the mode that the source was originally in (DTS in DTS, DD5.1 in DD5.1, DTS-ES in DTS-ES, etc.) rather than trying to enhance the modern formats with other processing. The only obvious (to me) exception is listening to DPL in DPL2.
I'm mostly discussing 2 channel sources, like CD, FM or TV. I don't know how to tell in general, if these sources contain music encoded in DPL, or not. (I imagine some of the songs I listened to were encoded in DPL.) But when I use DPL II processing on TV, CD or FM sources, it often sounds slightly more artificial than if I use DTS NEO. The slight artificial nature of DPL II is not obnoxious to the degree the DSP modes are, of my old receiver. DPL II is not bad. But after awhile the slight artificiality sometimes gets to me. I found I liked DTS NEO better, in general. (Not always, but in general.)
I haven't tinkered with the DPL II processing modes (Panorama, Dimension and Center Width) very much, but what little I did, did not help much and in some cases made the artificiality worse, approaching the nefariousness of DSP Hall or Stadium or Church. :) Truth be told, I'm not sure what the best practices are for adjusting Panarama, Dimension and Center Width modes of DPL II. Some adjustments should improve the sound of DPL II, I would hope. Hopefully we'll find out more about how these adjustments should be applied, as more people gain experience.
Again, I have a hard time telling when my CD, TV or FM radio station is playing songs encoded with DPL. Although I suspect quite a few of the songs I've heard, are encoded in DPL. Again, DPL II is more pleasant than the DSP processing modes in my old receiver. But I often like DTS NEO even better than DPL II. But I'm not sure why that is.
 

ThomasL

Supporting Actor
Joined
Mar 13, 2001
Messages
963
I do not own the Outlaw but I prefer DTS:Neo 6 Movie mode for stereo and DPL-mixed television shows. It just seems to sound better than DPLII Movie mode. I currently am testing the Pioneer VSX-D811S. As for the Music modes, I haven't really tried them and I tend to want to listen to my stereo cds in 2 channel stereo. Anything else (besides 6 channel stereo) tends to sound artificial. The Pioneer doesn't have adjustable parameters for DPLII Music mode like the Denon 2802 and the Onkyo SR600 but I am not sure if those would change my opinion or not.

cheers,

--tom
 

Dan Joy

Supporting Actor
Joined
Dec 8, 2001
Messages
758
May be a stupid question but is DTS NEO for 6.1 systems only and/or usually applied to DTS encoded source material? Please don't flame me, honest question?:confused:
I have used DPLII on my DA5ES and slightly like 1 DSP( CINEMA B). I have used DTS NEO a little and have liked what I have heard but I only have a 5.1 system.
 

Lewis Besze

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 28, 1999
Messages
3,134
Will, the Cirrus sr can most certainly be added to any 2 ch and 5.1 ch modes.You have to press the "Csurr" button more then once to get it "work".

Regarding DPL II's settings.

For me Panorama: on

Dimension:-1

Center width:6

works the best,so far I also use Cirrus sr over layed DPL II for music[cd input],I use straight DPL II for the VCR and TV inputs,slightly preffer it to DTS-Neo6 cinema,which I also had on my previous gear.
 

Gail M

Agent
Joined
Dec 14, 2001
Messages
34
We prefer using DPL2C-CES for my DPL VHS tapes and for cable movies which use stereo, DPL or DD 2.0 audio formatting.
 
W

Will

One problem I have with the "C" settings (both DPL2-C and DTS NEO-C) is they tend to have extremely low volume in the left and right channels. Instead, the front sound is heavily concentrated in the center channel (maybe C can stand for Center as well as for Cinema). The "M" settings (both DPL2-M and DTS NEO-M) on the other hand, play more loudly in the left and and right front channels but also play loudly in the center channel.

I have a sunfire cinema grand amp which auto-shutoffs when not enough juice comes into the left and right channels and unfortunately, the "C" settings don't produce enough volume to keep my amp from turning itself off. Maybe someday I'll connect the amp to a power supply with a 12 volt trigger mechanism and not have to worry about auto shutoffs but for now, I can't use the "C" settings unless I defeat the auto shutoff mechanism of my amp.

I imagine DPL2-C is a better way to decode DPL 2 movies. But while decoding 2 channel movies is of interest, these days I find most of what I listen to in 2 channels is NOT movies. I don't use the VCR very much and don't have an LD player. So the main time I watch movies in 2 channels is with the TV. Maybe I should change the default decoding for the TV source (in my 950) from DTS NEO-C to DPL 2-M. But on second thought, I probably won't do that soon since my amp would then auto shutoff. Actually, how TV movies gets decoded isn't a prime worry, for me. And except for the TV, most of my 2 channel listening is with music, not movies.
 

Lewis Besze

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 28, 1999
Messages
3,134
Will, the C stands for "cinema" which you already know,the reason for the elevated center level is to keep the dialog in there,just like the original pro logic.So the "behaviour" you described is "normal" for these modes.
 
W

Will

Yes the C elevates the center sound as it should. It seems to elevate it to a greater degree than old DPL processing. I'm sorry to take so much time describing my wierd wierd amp. :) DPLII-C is no doubt doing the right thing. Actually with regular DD and DTS movies my amp also shuts off at times due to so little music being passed to the left and right channels. In those cases, I have to flip the amp on manually and flip it off (figuratively :) ) afterwards.
I think DPLII-C acts similarly to DTS NEO-C in that they both increase the center front volume and reduce the left and right front volume, significantly.
 
W

Will

enables adjustment of the surround image between the front and rear of your room. Certain types of music benefit from smoother overall balance and a more natural sounding image.
Does setting dimension to a negative number make it more or less smooth than the setting it defaults to (when you first plug it in) which is zero?
 

Phil Norton

Auditioning
Joined
Mar 18, 2002
Messages
5
REgarding CR post processing on 2.0 and 5.1 channels sources....yes, it works great; However, I believe you must have the sixth (or a sixth and seventh) rear surround channels for it to engage. It's not available if....in the 'System Configuration'...you identified your system as not having any rear surround channels
 

BruceD

Screenwriter
Joined
Apr 12, 1999
Messages
1,220
Will,

I think you define your system in the setup as a 6.1 system even if you don't have the sixth channel connected.
 
W

Will

I understand what you're saying, but I'm confused. I didn't see where the manual says to mislead the configuration. Did the Outlaws or Cirrus or someone else offically recommend this? I mean, wouldn't I be better telling the configuration the truth about the number of channels I have, which is 5.1, than telling the configuration I have more channels than I really have?

There's no law against misleading the configuration, but I assume that since Cirrus Surround post processing only works when the configuration is set to 6.1 or 7.1, then there's a reason.

I guess it sounds a little like telling the configuration it's a 5.1 when it's really 2, and expecting to get great 3 dimensional sound out of non-existant speakers. Maybe I'm naive?
 

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