do you think this will happen when 6.1 and up come out.

Discussion in 'DVD' started by dajaga, Jul 14, 2003.

  1. dajaga

    dajaga Stunt Coordinator

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    do you guys think that movie companies will rerelease all the movies and put the movies in 6.1 7.1 8.1 ect when they all come out or will they just leave the movies. i for one think that they will rerelease all the movies in 6.1 + features. and then when 7.1 comes out they will rererelease the movie agian.
     
  2. Mark Hedges

    Mark Hedges Second Unit

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    I doubt this will happen, at least not on a large scale. Even 5.1 is in the minority, and people aren't exactly falling all over themselves to upgrade to 6.1 or 7.1.
     
  3. Neil Joseph

    Neil Joseph Lead Actor

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    History suggests that the majority of films will be re-released with the new sound format/.
     
  4. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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  5. Neil Joseph

    Neil Joseph Lead Actor

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    I agree with that... regarding studios doing the audio upgrade hand-in-hand with the new dvd format.
     
  6. Glenn Overholt

    Glenn Overholt Producer

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    I'm going to have to say no on this. Where are they going to cough up the other channel from?

    If a movie is recorded in 5.1 splitting one channel into two to make it 6.1 sounds like a really dumb idea to me.

    The bottom line would be that more movies will be recorded in 6.1 to take advantage of the extra channel.

    Glenn
     
  7. Daniel I

    Daniel I Stunt Coordinator

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  8. Richard Paul

    Richard Paul Stunt Coordinator

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    Michael, though I agree that 7.1 channels isn't going to be mainstream any time soon I do know that Widescreen Review has advocated the creation of a height channel. In fact, the movies "We Were Soldiers" and "Star Wars Episode 2" contain a matrixed height channel in their Theatrical and DVD soundtracks. Because of this there is currently a 7.1 channel audio format, though two of those channels are matrixed. If anyone is wondering the height channel is derived from both the center channel and the surround rear channel.
     
  9. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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  10. Richard Paul

    Richard Paul Stunt Coordinator

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    True, though I find the distinction of terms for discrete and matrixed audio odd since Dolby Pro Logic 2 would be referred to as a 2.0 channel format. I understand that it is correct to count only the discrete channels when using the terms 5.1 or 6.1 channels. So what is the correct term for soundtracks with a matrixed channel into a 5.1 channel soundtrack? I know that both Dolby Digital and DTS use their own terms, so what would be the standard term for it that would apply to both Dolby and DTS? The closest term I can think of is "5.1 channels + 1 matrixed channel". Also neither Dolby or DTS have a term for the addition of two matrixed channels added to a 5.1 channel soundtrack.

    In Issue 68 of Widescreen Review which I have in print, and as a PDF file that Widescreen Review suscribers can download from the WSR archive, an article titled "The Height Channel". The article was written by Gary Reber & Norm Schnieder, and which Gary Reber wrote that he had been an advocate for a "height" channel for years. This article states that the movies We Were Soldiers and ATOC have a matrixed "height" channel in both there Theatrical and DVD DD Surround EX soundtracks. It states that the CS-3X Jr. home decoder can create both the "EX" and "height" channels from those soundtracks which contain them.
     
  11. Nick_Scott

    Nick_Scott Second Unit

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  12. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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  13. Wes

    Wes Screenwriter

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  14. rich_d

    rich_d Cinematographer

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    Marketing will re-release films as often as they can get away with it.

    I strongly discount the idea though that a upgrade from 5.1 to 6.1 or beyond will be an enticing reason for a consumer upgrade. So, perhaps this stuff just goes along for the ride i.e. bells and whistles.

    To me it's the law of diminishing returns. 5.1 is great but is 6.1 a major improvement? Does having a center rear significantly improve your home theatre experience?

    My view, I would much rather get a better power amp and better speakers before I spent a drop on a center rear speaker. That would be a yield a much better return (performance/enjoyment) for the dollar invested.

    Heck, next I would purchase a large flat screen monitor etc. etc. I doubt that additional speakers above the six I already have would ever be in the cards.
     
  15. Dan Hitchman

    Dan Hitchman Cinematographer

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    Well, if you have both quality amps and speakers and then add a center rear or two, then you can have the best of both worlds.

    IMHO, high resolution 7.1 discrete is what is needed for the home (and at some point the theater-- why wait for commercial theater chains to move their slow behinds?). More than that and it becomes very awkward to find the space for more speakers. As is, EX and ES have serious flaws that limit their potential due to the fact that they are still tied somewhat to matrix surround decoding, even DTS-ES Discrete to some extent. It would work well for music too.

    Left, Center, Right (Front)
    Left, Right (Side)
    Left, Right (Back)
    LFE (wide bandwidth rumble effects only; although the channel could handle full frequency when so desired for a height channel, etc.)

    The processor could be setup to roll off below 20 Hz information to an output for tactile transducers as the Parasound Halo pre-amp's do.

    Given media with enough capacity you could do it with lossless compression when paired with video, and uncompressed when by itself for music.

    Although still a lossy compressed based system (unfortunately), DTS has introduced a 10 channel discrete decoder that can handle past, current (even consumer versions), and future DTS codecs for the commercial sector.

    Dan
     
  16. Tim Hoover

    Tim Hoover Screenwriter

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    I'm not so sure that the studios will double-dip re: new sound formats. DTS-ES Discrete has been around for a bit now, but you don't see it terribly often.
     
  17. Jeremy Anderson

    Jeremy Anderson Screenwriter

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    We Were Soldiers on DVD does NOT include the height channel information in its surround data. It includes the original theatrical mix, which was originally Dolby Digital EX and didn't include the height channel. However, We Were Soldiers was later remixed for the height channel for exhibition screenings to demonstrate the viability of height channel technology. The height channel information was only encoded in the sound for the exhibition screenings. This topic has been covered here before (and confirmed) if you do a search.

    Now that isn't to say that something wouldn't come out of a height channel when playing that disc... It just wouldn't be intentional. It'd be the overhead equivalent of playing a 5.1 mix in forced EX/ES -- probably sounds good, but it isn't mixed particularly for that format.
     
  18. Richard Paul

    Richard Paul Stunt Coordinator

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    Concerning the fact that there is no height channel on We Were Soldiers I am shocked and not at all happy with Widescreen Review. If it was a simple mistake then they should have posted a correction concerning it. Does anyone know if AOTC has a height channel on their DVD soundtrack?

    Rich, I would think having a complete 360 degree sound field would be worthwhile. The fact that they didn't do it when they made 5.1 surround sound is baffling to me. I do wonder though if a height channel will ever catch on in the consumer or commercial markets. Though I consider a rear channel worthwhile a height channel may not be worth the hassle unless you could plan for it when building a new house.

    Dan, I too have wondered if two rear channels would be useful. It seems to me that it would be useful since it would allow for better defined sound field. And since THX already recommends having two rear speakers why not have those speakers receive discrete channels?
     
  19. Tim Hoover

    Tim Hoover Screenwriter

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    You may run into problems installing the floor speaker(s)...
     
  20. Glenn Overholt

    Glenn Overholt Producer

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    Oh, that was sooo bad!

    Glenn
     

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