Do you agree that top-line Revel and B&W have very similar sound? (1 Viewer)

[Arnel Enero]

Thanks everyone for your input. This has been a good discussion (although rather more of a friendly debate).

 

[Holadem]

My take on the issue of studio monitors is that the mixing engineers are not only listening to the sound but also through the sound. For example, a very popular studio monitor is made by Yamaha and is relatively cheap

 

[Brad Dales]

I just hav one question for a vast majority of you "posters" here on this topic...."what kind of doobbage is being smoked here in this form?!!!...you must all surely be mad!...ok some of you anyway."
I've worked in the 4 high end audio stores in the past 10 years, and have heared sooooooooo many audio enthusiests call the majority of higher resolution, high end audiophile speakers bright on so many occasions, that I can't even count that high!
Whenever you get a well respected speaker manufacturer attempting to build a speaker that presents it's self as "flat" and/or "neutral" in sound and response chacteristics, it's simply very very very easy to get that speaker sounding "tipped" over the edge in perceived trebble and/or midrange brightness or agressiveness!....leading to analalytical, zippy, foreward, or hot sound pressentation. And, when you cnsider that there are a bunch of components and elements involved in an audio system, in a give room acoustic, that, again, it is very easy to make an otherwise potentially "accurate"(I uss the term perspectively) sounding speaker sound, well, bright!
I can't tell you how many times, even with the best(subjective, yes) transducers considered, I've heard people audition a system, and make comments that "the speakers sound bright!" Well, first off, I ask them to consider that they're hearing "a system!"...and not just speakers! It's impossible to evaluate a pair of speakers sonically without considering the gear it's hooked up to...they go hand in hand. So, again, if one component sounds a bit zippy, agressive, or analytical, or even lean in spectral balance, it can EASILY make a more neutral "accurate" sounding speaker sound bright!..and that's often the case in a lot of improperly matched systems, yes.
Now, I'm not saying that there aren't inheently bright speakers out there, no. Just that there I've found virtually no higher end type speaker that are not workable with the right gear, or are really bright and unlistenable overall! If the speaker does tilt toward what could easily sound bright if not careful, even with bass limited speakers that give a spectral impression tilt of being bright(Dunlavy SC1's, Revel M20's, Wilson WATT's(without puppies), Thiel PCS's, Maggie 1.6'setc), it's usually almost always matchable with the right gear in some form or another! And the speakers being the foundation, you should consider the matching gear as an after thought, not the other way around for most instances. So, that being said, if you like an overall impression of a speaker you audition, but think it might be a bit bright, may I submit to you that there's some gear out there that can match up with that speaker to make it "BALANCE" out tonally!" (sometims Tubes in the system somewhere works best).
Yes, I've heard most of the higher end, more ambitious, speakers out there sound bright at different times for sure. And ALWAYS, with proper gear or cableing, it's reel easy to get that speaker sounding "just right!" Again, it's all "balance" and "system matching ultimately, when it comes to matching gear!!!...not to be understated, or evaluate soley by one component really.
I guess what I'm saying is that my experience has showm me that these speaker designers have spent years developing and perfecting desings, that have become increasingly similar in sound characteristics over the years,and they can certainly all tell when they've produced a speaker that might sound, well, bright or not!..and thus correct the problem. But the misperception comes when you factor in the other variables, and things start to get perceived one way or another, often as "brightness issues" with associated gear in the systems.
Again, to reiterate, really, even if you go to all the trade shows and hear this stuff matched up with the proper gear(although I've found poor set-up's for sure.), you'll get a better perspective of what I'm talking about.
Personally, on a sales level over the years, I've sold the likes of Thiel, Wilson, B&W, Martin Logan, Maggie's, Audio Physic, Merlin, Celestion, Dunlavy, Revel, Sonus Faber, Totem, Infinity's higher end, Snell, JM Labs, NHT, Paradigm(getting mid-fi here..), Mirage, Enegy, Klipsch, Boston, Monitor Audio, PSB, Def Tech, Polk, M&K, and more!!! And really I can't think of one speaker in any of these lines that can't be properly mated with gear to sound "balanced" or "not bright" sounding!..not one! Again, it's all system matching. So for me, other than room acoustics, the brightness issue is really a non significant point usually. Infact I know I can take virtually any well thought out speaker, that's "close" to being properly balanced, and compliment it with the right gear to sound right.
Heck, I even can do some good with the Def Tech's powered towers(BP's) with powered subs built in, using some nice tube gear on em!!!...you'd be suprised at the sound for "mid fi speakers" I bet...
Now if you just can't part with that bright sounding pair of interconnects or audio compoents you just have to have, well then I think you're stuck looking for inherently "rolled off" or soft sounding speakers anyway...in which case it's a moot point

 

[Larry B]

Brad:

You raise some fascinating points, and I thank you for sharing them with us.

Regards,


Larry

 

[Brandon Blair]

For those who were talking about the Wilson speakers here earlier,

I was wondering if you have ever listened to any of the JMLab Utopia line speakers. The reason I ask is because not many people realize it, but Wilson uses Focal drivers in their speakers. Well, Focal is a division of JMLabs, and the drivers they sell to Wilson as well as other manufacturers are always their previous generation of drivers. Wilson uses the same drivers as the older Utopia speakers as JMLabs uses the newest Focal drivers in their current Utopia line. They will soon be redesigning and releasing new Utopias with next generation Focal drivers and will then begin to sell the drivers currently used in the Utopia's to Wilson and others.

I guess the reason i'm asking is to see how people think the JMLabs compare to the B&W's, Revel's, and especially the Wilson's (seems as the Wilson's drivers are always one generation of technology behind the JMLabs).

Any comments are welcome and encouraged!

 

[Justin Doring]

Brad, system matching is critical, but the "weakest link" maxim still holds true. That said, electronics and cables can transform a speaker's sound for better or for worse.

Brandon, Wilson uses a variety of drivers from a variety of manufacturers. The drivers are generally designed by Wilson and built to their specifications.

I've heard the JM Labs Utopia series on several occasions, and while they're nice speakers, they've always struck me as overpriced. On the other hand, the same has been said of Wilson.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

While I am a B&W fan, I find that argument that since they are used in the studios, they are good to be more advertising than an indicator of true quality.

I agree with this statement. Much equipment used in non-audiophile studios is terrible and explains much of the poor sonics we get on modern pop music.

I have heard JM Labs extensively and I personally like them a lot better than the Wilsons, though I have yet to hear the brand new Watt/Puppy 7 system. JM Labs have a very natural midrange, tight bass and clean HFs. What more could you want? Oh, yeah $70K to purchase them with!

 

[Brandon Blair]

Justin, you are right Wilson does use a variety of drivers, i guess i should have been more specific in saying the Watt/puppies which are all Focal drivers and in the same general range of the JMLabs Utopia line.

The Utopia's are incredible speakers, i'd go as far as to say the best i've ever heard, however way out of my price range. The Grande Utopia goes for 70k, the Utopia for 30k, and the Mezzo Utopia for 14k. If i ever was to spend over 10k on a set of speakers i would defenitely go with the Mezzo Utopia though.

 

[Larry B]

Brandon:

It is my understanding that the Focal drivers used by Wilson are custom made for Wilson, and that by contractual agreement, they can not be sold to anyone but Wilson for a designated period (three years, if memory serves).

BTW, Wilson is not the only high-end manufacturer to use custom drivers from an outside source.

And last, the drivers, while quite important, are only part of the equation (cabinet and cross-over being the other two). Without the special cabinets, Watt Puppies would not have that distinctive sound.

Larry