difference between using a receiver and a pre-amp processor (1 Viewer)

[mackie]

There are several advantages to having a separate power supply.

Separate amplifiers can usually put out more power for a longer period of time before they start clipping or shut down. This is due to a more robust power supply and more heat sinking/cooling.

Because of the power supply they can drive more difficult loads easier. Speakers are pretty complicated in that they aren't they have different Ohm levels at different frequencies. A speaker may be 4 ohm at 40 hz, 8 ohm at 350hz, 16 ohm at 1500hz... For lack of more technical terms, the separate amplifier's power supply can tolerate this better than a low quality power supply. Your mid-level receiver should be able to do this also except in extreme cases.

Other advantages, better THD, better slew rate(recovery time), and external amplifiers last a long, long time. It also helps with future upgrades, and it gives peace of mind knowing you've got enough power no matter what you decide to do....

Separating the power supply from the processing parts also removes a potential source of interference and the heat generated by the amplifier isn't good for the micro-processors.

A good mid-level receiver try to have the best of both worlds. Enough power to drive most speakers under most circumstances and have all the bells and whistles.

I suspect there are engineers out there that can elaborate more on this and maybe correct a few things here. But this my understanding as a hobbyist of how this works.

Upgrading to separates is a good step to take. But I wouldn't spend money on a separate amplifier until after I have speakers I want to live with for a long time and I've addressed the room's interaction with my system. Some people note remarkable improvements when adding desperate amplifiers, but I didn't. Looking back and knowing what I know now, I could've spent my money better. BTW, I've kept them amps I've bought because they give me more setup options and will be useful in the future. I don't feel I wasted money, but I could've put the money towards another sub, room treatments, video scaler...

 

[felix_suwarno]

i think i am going the separate route. but now i have more questions!

what about stand alone processors? a dealer told me that a processor is able to produce "directional bass". Good bass is non directional, he said, but with a processor ( i think it was a meridian ), the system should be able to make the listener hear low frequency sound from the rears when needed, for example.

and what about matching the amplifier and the speakers? any guideline? i really like the sound of bostons. if i were able to get a vrm90, i would in a heartbeat, but the best they have in here would be the vr3s. so, what would be the perfect match for monitor gold refs? i am leaning to B&K or sherbourn pre-pro & amp combo.

btw, mackie, are you a writer or something? if you had articles related to this hobby, let me know, i will read them.

 

[mackie]

I'm not a writer, engineer, or any professional working in the field. I'm just a hobbyist that spends too much time on forums like this and reading just about anything I can get my hands on regarding this subject.

You're referring to bass management, and just about all receivers and processors have this feature. Some are fixed and other give you options such as 40 hz, 60 hz, 80 hz, 100 hz, 120 hz. There are a few receivers and pre-pros that allow you to set each speaker independently.

The bass management is basically a cross over point that directs sound below that frequency to the sub instead of sending it to your speakers. If bass is set-up correctly, it is omnidirectional.

Here's a good read on the VR-3 speaker.
http://hometheatermag.com/completesystems/705boston/

Any of those amps should be fine, and used ones are often the best deal. Also consider Rotel, Adcom, and Parasound.

Since you're on the upgrade path and plan to do acoustical treatments, do that first and see what happens.

 

[Andrew Pratt]

Sherbourne's are very powerful amps and well regarded. The brands listed above also carry matching power amps to their processors that you might want to look into. As the above poster said buying a used power amp is often a good idea as they last for a long time and the savings here can allow you to either move up to a more powerful model or invest in a better speaker or processor etc.

 

[felix_suwarno]

"You're referring to bass management, and just about all receivers and processors have this feature. Some are fixed and other give you options such as 40 hz, 60 hz, 80 hz, 100 hz, 120 hz. There are a few receivers and pre-pros that allow you to set each speaker independently."

so, what is the advantage of purchasing a separate pre-pro ( these things seem more expensive ) than the regular receiver such as denons or yamahas when they are coupled with an amplifier? it seems that my old denon avr2802 would be sufficient ( jezz i want 7.1, but i think the denon is only 6.1 ... i had better check ).

maybe that is not clear. in other words, why are pre-amps seem to be more on the expensive side? i dont get it. no amplifier inside, yet they are usually more than a 1000 bucks.

 

[Andrew Pratt]

Felix its largely a supply and depand issue as any given manufacture will sell 10X more receivers then pre amps. Still with the amps removed and a dedicated power supply the sonics are almost always better with a dedicated pre amp vs a receiver.

 

[Dick Knisely]

Actually I'd bet it's closer to 1,000X as many. It appears to me that if you're buying separates the manufacturer assumes you're looking for high-end gear and willing to pay high-end prices--and they're eager to accommodate that willingness with the prices!

 

[mackie]

You can always get a mid level Denon or Yamaha and an external amp and have the best of both worlds. This is what I've done. A dedicated prepro will most likely sound better, but it won't be a dramatic difference.

Major problem with prepros is they don't always have the latest bells and whistles and cost.

It's a hard decision to make, but keep in mind most mid-level receivers will work great and have all the latest switching and processing options.

I imagine I'll end up with a separates system one day, but for now my old Denon 3803 with Outlaw M200 monoblocks are working just fine.

 

[felix_suwarno]

i am still having trouble understanding "better quality" using a prepro.

is it true that by using an amp, the sound quality of my system will only be noticeable during loud soundtrack? i mean, on average listening sessions, i dont think the extra power from the amp would really do anything to enhance the sound quality. is this true?

do i need to prepare two separate wall outlet just for the amplifier?

thank you.

 

[JackS]

Felix- Many of us here are using what many others here would call outdated equipment and are surviving very nicely.
I've taken my 6 year old Sony 777es receiver (5.1) to the max with Aragon and Crown amps plus an SVS Ultra sub.
Is this the best? Maybe not but, I think it sounds as good as any high-end demo I've ever heard.
The ultimate would be total seperates and the trade-off might be pride of ownership but sound quality can be subjective and in my opinion a mid to high end receiver can accomplish and closely equal an HT pre-amp.
If you decide to use a receiver, personally Id keep the cost below 2K (no need to spend more than this because preamp prices are coming into sight and are only slightly higher).
If you have the ability you might experiment with the receiver you already own. Who knows, you may accomplish the same thing I did at a much better price.

 

[felix_suwarno]

thanks for the response, jack. at this point i am leaning on yamaha rx-v2600, and upgrade later with a 7.1 or 5.1 b&k amp with 125 wpc depending on my budget next year.

but please, i need those questions answered. can i have more opinions about this? hellooo?

1- is an amp only matters when you want to listen at loud volume, or it does matter even on lower volume?

2- do i need to have a dedicated wall outlet just for my amp or receiver?

thanks

 

[mackie]

A rough way to figure this out is to use the formula:
Watts = Volts * Amps. I'm not sure what the household voltage rating is where you live but you can roughly figure out how much current you need by adding up the power consumption of your equipment. It'll usually be listed as amps, watts or VA. Add it all up.

Check your breaker box in your house and see what the max amp rating is. That will tell you how much power is available on that circuit.

In most cases, your equipment will rarely being drawing maximum power at the same time. Keep in mind your amp will be using a few watts most of the time.

Felix - there aren't any real good, consistent measures of what better is. You can look at numbers which only tell part of the story and can be misleading.

A Yamaha, B&K, Boston/Monitor Audio setup will sound great.

 

[felix_suwarno]

thanks mackie, i really appreciate that. if i were living in your neighborhood, i would have invited you for at least a simple cup of coffee. thank you.

 

[Matt Rohr]

I have an Anthem AVM-30 Processor, MCA-20, and MCA-50 Amps. I am not going to say they were cheap. But when it comes to sound quality I have noticed a nice difference when the Amps were hooked up to my Pioneer Elite unit. The external amps are the way to go!

 

[mackie]

Felix - keep us posted on how this comes together. I think you're on the right track, and the end result will be great sound for HT and music.

 

[felix_suwarno]

i am not ready to purchase anything this month, because i am still doing tons of research. as far as a receiver goes, it will be a yamaha rxv2600 or a denon 3806. i will decide after i hear them side by side.

now about the speakers. monitor audio has a new gold series, the "gold signature". i will wait for that. in my city, i have found one or two shops selling monitor audio silver rs series, but i havent found gold reference. so, i will have to wait and see about the gold signature ( i might have to wait 6 months... the silver rs was released last year on may, they have just become available in here last month ).

so i am doing more research on a speaker set, perhaps we can talk about this in the other forum. other than monitor audio, there are shops selling kef ( the iQ series looked good, but i dont know if they are in the same class as the gold monitor ), b&w 600 series, von schweikert vr series.

but one thing for sure, i will go with an svs for the sub. leaning toward pb12plus or pb12 ultra ( single woofer would be more than enough according to eric ).

 

[mackie]

I did research for about a year before I bought my setup. I think it paid off.

I've never heard Kef but would like to hear them.

I own a Hsu sub and it is amazing.

If you like B&W, give the 805s a listen. I really like how they sound.

 

[felix_suwarno]

i considered hsu vtf3, but i guess they dont sell to international customers. singapore is just 1 hour away by plane from here, but i dunno, my relatives in singapore dont share my hobby, so i am not going to burden them by asking them to buy one BIG box and ship it to me.

i think the 805 would really require a nice amp. i actually dont want to pay extra money for an amp, only if it was ABSOLUTELY necessary. but i do like how it looks, and the 805 is really quite popular in here. i could just go to random audio shops, and i believe i would find it easily.

have you ever heard a lumley lamrose ( spelling? )? it sounded spectacular. VERY crispy, warm but crisp. it is just tooo big and too expensive.

 

[mackie]

Yeah it would seem silly to use those with a midlevel receiver. I've got a Denon DRA 685 stereo receiver that would power them just fine, but I'm pretty sure I'd be looking to moving to separates just because it's such a nice speaker. It'd be like ordering cloth seats in Lexus. It'd work just fine but wouldn't seem right.

I haven't heard of the equipment you were referring to. There is so much out there it's hard to hear it all.

 

[Craig_Kg]

Matt, did you try using the MCA power amps with the Pioneer Elite receiver as a prepro? I'd be interested in how it sounds vs the Anthem AVM

In the past, I have been happy to use a mid level receiver as an AV prepro since the dedicated units cost ridiculous (to me) amounts of money. Now that NAD have the T163 prepro at RRP of A$1499, I'm tempted to look at this as well as the Rotel 1068 (A$2400 RRP but a fair bit lower street).

Does anyone have comments on these prepros vs receivers in the same price area like the Yamaha RV757, Denon 2106, NAD T143, Pioneer 1015?