What's new

My year-long receiver/pre-pro experiment. (1 Viewer)

JohnRice

Bounded In a Nutshell
Premium
Ambassador
HW Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2000
Messages
18,935
Location
A Mile High
Real Name
John
I'll start this off with some basics and maybe post more as it occurs to me. Over the last year or more I've been experimenting with a lot of options regarding sound quality with various ways of running my HT. I started using a Pioneer Elite VSX-56TXi receiver that I bought used here a couple years ago. This receiver was about $1,800 when it was new, 6 or 7 years ago, so it is far from a cheap piece of equipment. I have Thiel speakers in the front and use a very powerful Aragon amp for L&R that provides roughly 500 WPC. At first I was using the Pioneer to power the other speakers, which was a 5.1 system at the time. Actually, at first I had a Mission speaker for a center, because Thiel speakers are stinking expensive and the Mission made a decent, though hardly perfect match. The first interesting thing I found was that when I bought an Emotiva XPA-5 amp for everything other than the L&R, the Mission center now matched the Thiels far better than before. Not only does the Emotiva amp have more power, but it is a different basic design. Receivers ALL have class D amps, and the Emotiva is class A/B. I tend to be skeptical of the capabilities of EQ stuff like Audyssey. I see no way they can create the same difference as you get with a better amp. Wikipedia has a decent page explaining the basic differences in amp classes. The basic rule of amp classes is, high efficient class D amps are also complex and have relatively high distortion, but their big benefit is their efficiency. Then the designs step down in efficiency and distortion with class A/B and then class A. What I don't know is if the improvement in matching between the Thiels and Mission was due to the added power, better amp design or, most likely, a combination of both. The Aragon amp that drives the L&R Thiels is even a step above the Emotive, running Class A up to at least 100 watts (with the Thiels' impedance of abour 3 ohm) and A/B beyond that. The downside is that class A amps are absurdly inefficient at about 20-25% efficiency. Class D amps are usually at least 90% efficient. The problem is, I think (depending on your speakers) there is a genuine sonic difference. I suspect this is a big reason people hear such a difference when they go to external amps. It's not just the greater power, but a "smoother" sound from A/B amps vs. D. The next thing I tried was a newer receiver as a "Pre-amp" for the system. At the time, all the Marantz models had full pre outs, so I could use one in place of the Pioneer. So, I got a SR5005, the bottom of the line, for $500 (it's only $450 now) from accessories4less.com. Remember, I am using ALL external amps, so the receiver is really operating as a pre-amp. The surround sound was noticeably better than with the (older, but significantly more expensive) Pioneer. By "better" I mean on par with the difference between DVD and HD sound with BR. It wasn't subtle. What I don't know is if it is because the Marantz receivers are that good, or just that surround processors have improved that much. Once again, I suspect it is some of both. So, one of my conclusions is that it does make sense to use external amps, but use a receiver as a pre-amp. It seems silly, but pre/pros are expensive and if you can get 90% of the improvement with a good receiver that has pre-outs for the external amps it is more practical in the long run, especially since you can move that receiver to a smaller system when you upgrade. Today, I broke down and ordered Emotiva's UMC-1 pre/pro, which is on closeout because they are introducing a 3D compatible version. I guess I'll see if I hear an improvement over the Marantz receiver. Still, I was surprised what an improvement the Marantz was over the Pioneer when using external amps.
 

John Brill

Supporting Actor
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
519
Real Name
John
Hi John, interesting write up and I've had a similar experience except that my main driver from my original upgrade from receiver to pre/pro was the jump into HDMI. Sadly, I don't think you're going to see much difference between the processing power of the SR5005 and the UMC-1. I think the main issue with the improvement of the Marantz over the Pioneer had more to do with advances in technology and quality of implementation of Marantz over Pioneer. As you stated, the biggest difference I saw (heard actually) was moving back to separate amplification. I simply went with the UMC-1 pre/pro for convenience at the time and the price was right even then but a steal today! That said, I now wish the UMC-1 had two HDMI outputs, not just one :rolleyes: A simple splitter will solve this issue but still. The other reason I moved to Emotiva's pre/pro was for ease of upgrade... To be brutally honest, 3D compatability is not the reason I'll be upgrading anytime soon. I simply can't watch movies wearing 3D glasses, gives me a headache beyond belief. JB
 

JohnRice

Bounded In a Nutshell
Premium
Ambassador
HW Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2000
Messages
18,935
Location
A Mile High
Real Name
John
John, I also have no interest in 3D, which is a big reason I broke down and ordered the UMC-1. You might remember what a significant improvement I hear with the Emotiva USP-1 Stereo Pre-amp. I'm not expecting that kind of improvement here. In fact, I doubt the HT environment actually lends itself to hearing those kinds of improvements. I suspect the main reason people hear an improvement with the UMC-1 is not the UMC-1 itself, but the move to better amps. I decided to get the UMC-1 for a few reasons. The Marantz can go to another system and operate as a receiver, not a pre/pro. The UMC-1 does have more inputs and more advanced crossover ability, which I would like to experiment with. Besides, the current $500 price and the fact it includes the upgrade certificate could pay for itself if Emotiva comes out with something amazing.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Sign up for our newsletter

and receive essential news, curated deals, and much more







You will only receive emails from us. We will never sell or distribute your email address to third party companies at any time.

Forum statistics

Threads
357,059
Messages
5,129,815
Members
144,281
Latest member
acinstallation240
Recent bookmarks
0
Top