Describe your bass (Tempest subowners)

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Craig Carrigan, Nov 13, 2002.

  1. Craig Carrigan

    Craig Carrigan Stunt Coordinator

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    I just got done with my Tempest EBS sub. That thing is a beast. I think I've gotten everything in place. I put it where my old sub was which performed fairly well. My problem is the amount of bass. Either one of two things is wrong:

    I was expecting more bass than I got

    Or I am not getting the bass I am supposed to

    Here is my exact setup: One Tempest, 250W plate amp from Acoustic Visions, two 4" full length ports, 64oz of stuffing, solid EBS box with caulking and wood glue.

    When the real low bass comes in my stuff falls off the shelf in my bathroom but my teeth aren't shaking like I thought they would. Some of the bass in LOTR is good and some isn't. I tried my scene in the Matrix where she jumps in the air to kick the guy (right at the beginning) and the teeth rattling heart stopping just wasn't there. I have the crossover pretty close to 60, the phase halfway, and the gain about halfway. Anyone else with this kind of bass? Is this normal? Should I expect this?

    Thanks,
    Craig
     
  2. Dan Hine

    Dan Hine Screenwriter

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    Craig,
     
  3. Craig Carrigan

    Craig Carrigan Stunt Coordinator

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    Tonight, I calibrate! Any tips? I'll pick up that meter today. My preamp does a pink noise so maybe I'll start there. Anything else?

    Thanks for your help,
    Craig
     
  4. Jeremy Stockwell

    Jeremy Stockwell Supporting Actor

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    Also, how long have you been using the Tempest? My understanding is that there is some break-in time required for the Tempest.

    JKS
     
  5. Dan Hine

    Dan Hine Screenwriter

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  6. Craig Carrigan

    Craig Carrigan Stunt Coordinator

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    I used it for about 35 minutes [​IMG] Then it was sleepy time.
    I only played some of the scenes that I wanted to test out. Maybe I will leave it on during the day to break it in.
    Also, I really am looking to hear about what your subs sound like. Do they rattle the walls? Does your pancreas hurt? Do you have to go to the bathroom often? I love hearing stories about massive bass [​IMG]
     
  7. Craig Carrigan

    Craig Carrigan Stunt Coordinator

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    Dan,
    Thanks for the warm welcome Dan. It does seem that there are a lack of South Carolinians on these AV forums. Where are you people! Maybe we are just a lurking state [​IMG]
     
  8. Darren_T

    Darren_T Second Unit

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    I have the Tempest Adire Alignment Vented design. First off, be sure you built the EBS as a down firing sub. You wont get the same performance unless it's downfiring, it requires the resistance of the floor or a plate.

    I think it's possible you are expecting waaaaaay to much from a home subwoofer. You won't get near the sensation you get from being in a car unless you go totally nuts and build a monster 20 driver sub or something. You have much more area in a home to fill than in a car. Your walls will shake from the low frequency waves and yes, you should feel certain effects but it isn't going to rattle your teeth out. It should be good accurate bass and should not be bloated. If your system is calibrated correctly you shouln't even know the sub is there until there is an explosion or some other LFE.

    Darren
     
  9. Craig Carrigan

    Craig Carrigan Stunt Coordinator

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    I guess maybe in the back of my mind I was thinking in terms of car. But I was thinking that it should massively out-perform my existing (10" seventy dollar sub) and it didn't. So I think that something else is wrong. But I could also be expecting too much. Story of my life [​IMG]
     
  10. Kyle Richardson

    Kyle Richardson Screenwriter

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    First, find the best location in the room for the subwoofer. This may not be an easy task since this is such a large sub but there are some areas in the room that are better than others for producing bass. Usually, one of the front corners works best but not all the time. This is accomplished by placing the sub in your listening position then playing a steady bass frequency like a test tone or sine wave. Be careful not to play it too loud or you may do some damage to your ears or the sub. While the test tone is playing, walk around the room with your SPL meter and you will be amazed at the different readings from the various areas of the room. Pick the location that gives you a higher spl reading. Of course all of this may not be possible if you only have one location for the sub to sit.
    After you found the location for the sub, calibrate the subwoofer with Avia or something similar.
    After you have calibrated the subwoofer, play around with the phase control while listening to various frequencies. This is best done with the help of somebody else rotating the knob while you sit in the listening position with a SPL meter. Keep the phase in the location where you get the most SPL which will usually be at 0 or 180 degrees. Sometimes it falls between 0 & 180, but usually not.
    Now that it is all calibrated, note the exact settings for the volume on the sub amp, phase, amp crossover(if using) and the crossover of your receiver(if using) and put in some test material and LISTEN. If you like the settings great, you're all finished. If you find it lacking in bass then bump up the sub out on the receiver a bit or the sub amp a bit but I suggest listening to it for a few days before doing that so you can get used to the new sound. Typically, most people are used to subs with higher distortion and mid-bass over emphasization which will give the listener a false sense of being louder. Your EBS trades off a bit of mid bass for its ability to play louder on the really low stuff and will also be very clean sounding.
    Another thing keep in mind is that many people think that they will get car SPL levels in their HT which is extremely hard to do because of the larger area and the car arena is where you will usually hear the comments like "it made me sick" & "I thought my heart was going to stop from all of the vibrations" [​IMG]
    Hope this helps!
     
  11. Craig Carrigan

    Craig Carrigan Stunt Coordinator

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    I actually haven't done car audio in a very long time so I don't think that is where I was headed. I guess my point was that on some of these scenes I was expecting more (as the quality right now is pretty poor). The balrog in LOTR should have shaken the walls a bit more and I should have felt the pod race in Star Wars a bit more. I'm thinking that I have it in the wrong place because the stuff in my cabinets is falling out but I still hear nothing. I think after some tuning I will be happier. There goes my night [​IMG]
     
  12. Kyle Richardson

    Kyle Richardson Screenwriter

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    If stuff is falling out of your cabinet then the bass is definitely there and it may be low enough that you aren't hearing all of it! Much of home theater bass is very low in frequency, thus, you will get more tactile sensation than you can actually hear.
     
  13. Darren_T

    Darren_T Second Unit

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    Yup, I think your sub is in the wrong spot and you are also feeling frequencies below the audible range. The Tempest should make your 10" cry in shame. I had the same problem as you when I finished my Tempest. I had a very small air leak and I also tried using it as a front firing sub, when I fixed the leak and made it down firing it came alive. When you get it tuned up you will be impressed. Also, you probably shouldn't need much more than 1/4 gain on your plate amp, possibly 1/3. Once calibrated you should be in good shape.
     
  14. Craig Carrigan

    Craig Carrigan Stunt Coordinator

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    I just downloaded a test tone generator so that I can play a tone and check for air leaks. I'm thinking that I may have a few small ones but didn't think that it would affect the performance too much. I guess maybe it does. I also don't have feet attached. I just have pseudo feet holding the downfiring sub off the floor. I wouldn't guess that to be an issue either but maybe it is.

    Thanks again,
    Craig
     
  15. Wendell

    Wendell Stunt Coordinator

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    on my new 214L AA Tempest, the bass is just plain SICK! I think its even too much for my 10x12 room in my loft. I had to turn it down last night since AOTC was just full of heavy bass scenes. Isn't the EBS more for Audio Listening Like for music with pipe organ music? Maybe what your looking for is a little more kick above 20-25hz,
     
  16. Ronnie Ferrell

    Ronnie Ferrell Second Unit

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  17. Craig, B
    efore you even measure your room with the RS meter, I suggest you model it (if you can with your room shape). If you have a square or rectangle room, then this will be really easy.
    Modeling your room will show you if you have placed the subwoofer in a position that will yield any big suckouts at the seating position.
    Room Responce Calculator
     
  18. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Yes, air leaks in a EBS ported sub can certainly hurt performance.
    I might also suggest that when checking for air leaks that you temporarly ~{plug the ports}~. Run a deep test tone not to loud as mentioned above and look for air leaks.
    These can work pretty good plugging ports....
    Nerf balls, wadded up socks, T-shirt, tennis balls, anything to get them plugged, tighter the fit the better. This will help keep more air pressure inside the box and make it eaiser to find leaks useing the Tissue or Lighter Flame technic. I've even used baby powder on a spoon to find really small leaks.
    Be carefull with the lighter flame technic though... POOF [​IMG]
    Be sure to check all seams, around the amp, around the driver, and if the ports are plugged good and tight, around them too.
    The boys have given you what you need to get all you can out of the beast. Follow their advice and things can only get better, quite possibly much better.
    Good luck
    Geoff
     
  19. Chris Tsutsui

    Chris Tsutsui Screenwriter

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    I'll describe the bass from 1 adire alignment tempest.

    Room = 13x10x8 foot room.
    Measured at listening position with C-weighted Slow RS meter.

    Recorded a max 105db at listening position playing a 20hz test tone.
    Frequency sweep from 20hz to 200hz capable of outputting 100db +/- at listening position.

    I know my room is small but I think you should be able to get fairly close to those numbers as an idea that everything is OK.
     
  20. Rory Buszka

    Rory Buszka Supporting Actor

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    I think having the phase control at 90 degrees is basically cancelling out the bass inside the circuitry of the amp. I would say run it with the phase control at 0 degrees. You should see an improvement.
     

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