Checked out the Panny 47" WideScreen HDRPTV at BB, not impressed...

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Ron_C, May 2, 2002.

  1. Ron_C

    Ron_C Agent

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    I went to BB to look at some 4x" HDRPTV's. I looked at the Toshiba 42h81, the Panny 47" and a JVC 48", all widescreen. The toshiba has the best picture out of all of them. I liked the panny, but it has an huge amount of red push, i mean a lot. Are all of them like this or can it be adjusted? My G/F decided on the JVC 48" for 1999.00 because she couldn't justify spending 1999.00 for the 42" toshiba even though it had a better picture. What HDRPTV's should i be looking at in this price range(1600-2000)that are widescreen(4x").

    Thanks
     
  2. Gregg Loewen

    Gregg Loewen Video Standards Instructor, THX Ltd.
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    I have not evaluated the new JVCs yet.

    the toshs have excellent color but once you notice the ghosting problem many people dont like the set.

    The Panny does have a bad red push. This is correctable via the service menus. Gray scale will also have to be set in order to correctly evaluate the red saturation.

    Regards

    Gregg
     
  3. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    I hope you realize that it is pretty much impossible to make objective decisions on RPTV image quality when you stare at uncalibrated TV's in a showroom floor.

    All the issues you stated with the panasonic can be easily fixed in the service menu.

    I will hopefully be able to get a first in depth look at the JVC this weekend. Report to follow.

    Regards
     
  4. Hank_P

    Hank_P Second Unit

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    PLEASE DO NOT MAKE A DECISION BASED ON WHAT DISPLAYING ON THE FLOOR. I see everyone (all ages) playing with the menu, settings, etc. One day I sat there for about 20 minutes setting it up correctly to see what the Toshiba "could" look like... I had no more than turned my back and someone was already turning everything up, changing the sharpness and adjusting the color... geesh!
     
  5. Dennis Reno

    Dennis Reno Supporting Actor

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    Hank is correct. Not only do people (men, women and children of all ages) continually play with the settings, the signal they feed the TVs is usually split a dozen or more times. On top of that most TVs have the brightness cranked to "eleven" out of the box. It all adds up to a pretty lousy picture on the floor.
     
  6. Marc Rochkind

    Marc Rochkind Second Unit

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    Strongly agree with three previous replies. Showroom-floor evaluations are completely meaningless.
     
  7. jeff lam

    jeff lam Screenwriter

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  8. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    With few exceptions, it's actually a given that after a thorough calibration, most of the big name player's have sets that look fairly similar.

    Sony looks as good as Pioneer

    Panasonic looks as good as Mits ...

    Pioneer looks as good as Panasonic...

    At least with many of the opinions that you get here, it is hoped that they are more "informed" opinions as opposed to the uninformed opinions you find elsewhere.

    What is an uninformed opinion worth? About as much as no opinion at all. (Although that in itself is also an opinion.)

    At least you are dealing with more people who have seen what optimized images look like ...

    Now if you are not willing to put in the time to tweak your own TV, nor are you willing to pay a professional to do it, then you are really on your own. (Because it indicates that you really don't care about image quality anyway so you should just buy what looks good to you in the store and be done with it.)

    If you want to go the tweaking route ... then buy your set based on other criteria now instead of image quality. Stay within the big 5 or six players and you will do fine regardless of what you choose.

    Buy it based on price, asthetics, and features.

    Regards
     
  9. jeff lam

    jeff lam Screenwriter

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    Michael,

    I would definitelly trust the opinions of yourself and Gregg L. as you both see many nice TV's and properly calibrated I might add. Although you don't see them side by side, you still have seen enough to make a good decision on which you prefer. Most of us don't have the oportunity to see so many TV's properly calibrated and count on the opinions of trained ISF techs to help us with our decisions.
     
  10. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    On rare occasions, I do get to see and work on a number of sets side by side. It happens when I hang out in some of the stores I calibrate for and I'd work on two or three units at the same time.

    Say, a Panasonic next to two Toshiba sets ... when all three are done ... it becomes obvious to all present what some of the strengths and weaknesses are.

    In the case of the Panasonic versus the two Toshiba sets, it quickly became obvious that the DVD images were simply more detailed on the Panasonic ... not by that wide a margin, but still you could see it. It was also obvious that the colour scheme for the Panasonic was different than the Toshibas ... (understandable given Toshiba's larger colour palette.)

    To no one's surprise, the Panasonic was the worst looking of the bunch prior to any fiddling.

    The biggest danger as consumers ... is that we can never be sure that the playing field on the showroom floor is level. Does Brand "A" look better than Brand "B" because it is the better set ... or has someone purposely made Brand "B" look worse because Brand "A" has a higher profit margin?

    Believe me, it happens. Traditionally, margins have always been tighter on Sony sets than Toshiba sets ...

    And sometimes Manufacturers have secret incentive deals to the sales staff for pushing their product. Stuff like scratch and win from Hitachi for instance ...

    It's actually reassuring that if you bought Mits or SOny or Panasonic or Pioneer or Hitachi ... you'd still have a fine product.

    Regards
     
  11. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    The Panny, which I have seen adjusted appropriately at a small home-theater boutique-type store a few blocks away from my house, looks gorgeous in a darkened room.

    Last time I was shopping for a display, I insisted that the good guys! people turn off the track lighting above the floor model. I also insisted they connect one of their best DVD players on hand--turned out the be a Sony 7700--via component-video cables. I did my part by bringing a copy of Video Essentials.

    When spending significant money on a set, as I told them firmly, I expect the store to accommodate me. By the time I was done, the set I was interested in looked better than anything in the showroom.

    But, then, everything else was in torch mode; a bluish cast illuminated the rest of the showroom.

    How can anyone expect any type of display to look good under such circumstances?

    If you live near a "high-end," non-chain dealership, why not go there and see the how the televisions look in its showroom?

    A full service-menu calibration works wonders--and with a set as sophisticated as the Panny 47, a visit by the ISF man should be factored into the overall purchase price.
     
  12. Marvin

    Marvin Screenwriter

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  13. Michael Eiche

    Michael Eiche Auditioning

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    Michael,

    Did you have a chance to look at the new 48" JVC. Very interested to hear your opinion.
     
  14. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    I will have a chance to look at it on Saturday ...

    The trick will be if the existing codes still work on this unit.

    Regards
     
  15. Johnny wilson

    Johnny wilson Stunt Coordinator

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    How are the stretch modes on the 47" Panny? How does it look with direct tv viewing? Thanks in advance.
     
  16. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    I find the justify mode on the Panny to be just fine. Zoom is as good as any other set out there.

    Also nice to be able to turn off the line doubling on cable when needed.

    Regards
     
  17. kevin_tomb

    kevin_tomb Stunt Coordinator

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    I sale tvs for a living and have adjusted all the ones in my store......gotta say they all look more similar than different. The panny has a more detailed look than anything else we sell.....Hitachi Mitsu and Sony. The color of the pany is a bit off though..too much red. But the hitachi and sony have a more in your face look which tires after a bit...mind you im talking minor differences. We play with a HIGH DEF FEED with component leads which gives all the screens a perfectly equal signal. Lighting in the store is the main reason most of the TVs look bad. THE combination of reflections and just too damn bright lights. I used to like the sony and hitachi best...till we got the panasonic....on some of the "fly over" travel shows ....NOTHING BEATS THE PANNY FOR DETAIL...People will just stand there and stare at it and make comments like "I feel like im actually there" and so forth. Another big factor in choosing is watch for the "SCREEN PROTECTOR" it causes glare like you wont believe and also dims the picture a significant bit. They say that its a glare screen.....THATS FOR SURE>>>IT MAKES GLARE
     
  18. kevin_tomb

    kevin_tomb Stunt Coordinator

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    BTW I think the stretch modes are almost Identical with all brands of TVs.....not exactly but you cant tell one form the other without extensive measuring etc
     
  19. Michael Eiche

    Michael Eiche Auditioning

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    Hey Michael TLV,

    Did you get a chance to check out the JVC 48"?
     
  20. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    I spent a bit of time with it, but more is needed since they did not have the proper remote control for the TV. Nor did the existing service menu codes work ...

    Back to the drawing board ...

    more to come when I figure that part out ... sorry

    Regards
     

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