can all TV's display progressive output?

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Todd Christ, Feb 28, 2005.

  1. Todd Christ

    Todd Christ Stunt Coordinator

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    ok - the word 'all' is relative here [​IMG]

    i have an older 36" tube with Component IN and i'd like to enable 480p, but hesitate to because my new DVD player says "if your aren't sure if your TV can display progressive scan output, leave the setting as Interlaced"

    i have a Panasonic CT-36D20, which is operating in 'monitor mode' with the component inputs as the only 'input' on the set...

    thanks!
     
  2. Charlie Campisi

    Charlie Campisi Screenwriter

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    It looks like an SDTV with component inputs, so no progressive scan, but I couldn't find anywhere that still sells this model and posted current specs.
     
  3. Todd Christ

    Todd Christ Stunt Coordinator

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    here's the manual i found online...
    http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/CT27D20.PDF

    it says that "this TV is capable of displaying only the 480p/480i SDTV signal using the Panasonic DTV/STB. In order to view DTV programming, the STB must be connected to the component video inputs and audio inputs and in DTV mode"

    so - from what i can tell, it will do 480p/480i

    correct?
     
  4. mark alan

    mark alan Supporting Actor

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    I seriously doubt it does progressive scan. It probably would have cost you at least $500 more than you paid for it and the manual would have promoted the hell out of the fact.
     
  5. Todd Christ

    Todd Christ Stunt Coordinator

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    ok - i was under the assumption that component video allowed the 'progressive scan' imaging when i purchased the unit - granted it's not a WEGA set, but has 800-lines of horizonal resolution which seemed to be pretty good at the < $1k pricepoint I had at the time...

    thanks
     
  6. ChuckSolo

    ChuckSolo Screenwriter

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    No, this TV is an analog only TV. In order to view 480p content you must have either an EDTV or an HDTV set. The component connections allow for more picture clarity at 480i because the signal is split into two color and one black and white signal. I think what the manual is saying is that you can connect a "digital" set top box with the component connections, but I doubt the TV is showing 480p. The year the manual was copyrighted, 2000, really tells me that the component connection is being used only to enhance the 480i picture from the STB; much like the first component equipped DVD players, which were NOT progressive, but had component outputs to enhance the PQ.[​IMG]

    Todd, you could of course go into the DVD player's setup manu and enable progressive scan and see what the TV does. There is always a way to enter a code on the remote to switch the player back to interlaced mode if PS doesn't work. Have your DVD player's manual ready when you try this.[​IMG]
     
  7. Scott*B

    Scott*B Stunt Coordinator

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    I disagree with you guys. From reading the manual it looks like this TV will display a progressive scan signal. 480p should display fine. Give it a try.
     
  8. ChuckSolo

    ChuckSolo Screenwriter

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    Well, the only way to know is to try. Let us know what happens Todd.

    You also have to remember, that the manual covers about 4 models of the television. It might be alluding to one of the other models. I have never seen a "non-digital" TV that is able to accept a progressive signal, especially one that is 5 years old.
     
  9. Seth Paxton

    Seth Paxton Lead Actor

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    Um, HD is still analog, not digital. The D is Definition and refers to the resolution of the picture, not the format by which the signal is carried to it. A decoder box might care but a 480p or 1080i set (capable of scanning that rate) typically gets that info via the ANALOG video signals(waveforms) coming across the component (or sometimes VGA/RGB) wires.

    Yes, digital connections are now becoming more common, but HD and digital transport of info should not be confused. Digital just helps make it easier and HD was tied in with the conversion off broadcast TV from analog signals (on carrier waves) to digital signals (on similar carrier waves but with more bandwidth allotted and now piggybacking digital info).



    Anyway I can't think of any issues you would have with sending out a waveforms at a faster rate (the 480p rate). The TV might not synch or scan right if its not capable, but otherwise I don't see what damage would come from it. You might want to keep a back-up connection if the only way to set the DVD output is via menu (like S-vid) so you can go back if the picture will no longer synch correctly.

    Remember that many of these "warnings" are simply to keep people from calling up saying "my TV don't work". [​IMG]

    Some warning are more serious of course, but usually they involve the service menu (where critical settings can be messed up) or opening up the TV (where pain and death could await, esp if you get near the yoke or the higher voltage power plane). [​IMG]


    Anyway, it looks like it will scan 480p by the manual but wouldn't synch to 540p/1080i or 720p. That's not so unusual for this period of displays, just like the Sony W400Q front projector would synch at 540p/1080i but would NOT synch as slow as 480p, yet would synch at the slower 480i. This has more to do with cheaper, simplier synch chips/circuits of the time when it was still tougher to adjust the synch rates on the cheap (by CE standards at least). The first stage of transition seemed to be to add a 2nd sync option that had a limited range itself as a compliment to the already existing 480i circuit.

    It also looks like they gave you the option of using a DTV set-top decoder but you probably had to put it on an output of only 480p (downcoverting 720p and 1080i). Again, not that unusual at the time.
     
  10. ChuckSolo

    ChuckSolo Screenwriter

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    I'd lay money that it won't accept a progressive signal from a DVD player.
     
  11. John S

    John S Producer

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    It may.. I have been see'n a lot of these sets that can do this. EDTV / or even just DTV's they are usually labled.


    HDTV looks great at 480p, I encourage people that have such displays to buy a tuner and all. Even got the cable company to hook up their HD stuff to a few of them.

    Definetly worth persue'n. If it has Component Video in.

    I was doing searhces on the net, and man, everything I found said 480i only though. But I don't think any of them listed a Component Video Input either.

    Should be easy to try with any low end Progressive scan DVD player.
     
  12. ChuckSolo

    ChuckSolo Screenwriter

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    I had a Panasonic 32" TV that I bought about 3 years ago that had component input and would NOT accept a 480p signal. This is why I am skeptical about this.
     
  13. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    The delivery type for OTA and such is digital, but the transmission between source and display is very often analog, and as Seth did correctly note referring to a set as "analog only" doesn't mean anything. I have an "anlog only" display that can sync well beyond HD resolutions. The manual is confusin, but it does seem to indicate that this set will do 480p.

    In any case, please do not confuse analog and digital as being synonmous with SD and HD, they absolutely are not. You can have SD and HD resolutions with both analog and digital displays and both analog and digital transmission formats.
     
  14. Todd Christ

    Todd Christ Stunt Coordinator

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    well, i took the chance last night and gave it a shot - fortunately the unit does a 15-second 'test' and if you don't respond it goes back to interlaced mode...

    so I selected progressive mode, and the screen didn't black out - but instead went into a weird display mode, almost like the old 'wraparound' look you used to have to fix on old B&W tv's (setting the horizonal scan) - but i could still read the screen somewhat and cancelled out of the progressive setting...

    thanks to everyone, and hopefully someone won some $$ or a free beer on the bets!

    This MYTH IS BUSTED! [​IMG]
     
  15. John S

    John S Producer

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    It would most likely clearly state DTV or something on it, this is still considered a premium feature, from an NTSC only set.
     
  16. ChuckSolo

    ChuckSolo Screenwriter

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    While all you " HT techies" out there were right about the cable box and HD signals vs. SD signals, he was asking about a DVD player in progressive mode working on his TV. Weren't you guys just comparing "apples to oranges?" I hate to say "I told you so." It just seems to me that so many people think that if the TV has component inputs then it can display a progressive signal from a DVD PLAYER. It just ain't so folks. BTW, I was speaking from experience, not from some manual printed in China or Japan.[​IMG]
     
  17. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    You are correct. However, the set is 480i capable only. You should not refer to it as being "analog only" as this only has to do with the type of display, and/or input types, and has no relation to what types of signals it will accept.
     
  18. ChuckSolo

    ChuckSolo Screenwriter

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    Chris, so in essence you are saying that this display will accept pure digital signals? That makes no sense since the TV itself has only analog inputs and will not accept "digital" signals. Chris, this is NOT a "digital" dispay, correct? I think this is tantamount to splitting hairs. Either a TV will accept a progressive signal or it won't. I doubt that this TV could be made to accept any kind of "progressive" signal. I stand by my statement. This is an ANALOG TV only since it will only accept an analog signal.
     
  19. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Chuck, you are confusing two different things.

    The *resolution* that the set will accept and display determines whether it is SD or ED/HD or some variation etc.

    The *type* of display tells you what kind of display it is, a CRT display works in analog, that's just how they work they use analog waveforms to drive the guns and the beam sweep, etc. DLPs, LCDs etc are digital displays, they work internally digitally to display the picture.

    Then there is the input type, inputs like component, S-video, Composite, RGB, etc are analog. Some are limited to certain resolutions, like SD for composite and s-video. The others can send either SD or HD signals. Then there are also digital connection methods, like DVI, HDMI, SDI, etc, that can display various resolutions.


    No. What makes this an Analog TV is because it is a CRT.

    I have an Analog, HD display (Actually well beyond HD). I'm using a CRT projector that of course is analog in function, and also only accepts analog RGB inputs. However, it is a High-Definition display, as I can easily feed it and display any type of HD signal via the analog input, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p and beyond. This doesn't mean it's not still an Analog display. Nothing changes that suddenly makes a CRT "digital." I could add a custom DVI input card to it, and now I could send it a digital version of the same signal, but it is still a CRT, and it is still an Analog display no matter what. That's how CRTs work. (I am ignoring the differentiation between analog chassis CRTs and digitally controlled chassis, as this only has to do with the control circuitry and is a fairly advanced topic for this thread. In most all cases we are not talking about analog-only chassis as these are very old. In any case, the functions of displaying the picture itself are always analog in a CRT)

    There are Digital displays that can only do SD 480, but that makes them standard definition only, but they are still digital displays.

    Don't confuse analog and digital display types, and transmission types, as being at *ALL* related to the resolution capabilities of the display.

    There are analog displays that can do only SD, and there are those that can do HD; just as there are digital displays that can only do SD, and there are those that can do HD.
     
  20. Joe C.

    Joe C. Auditioning

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    I agree with Wiggles.
    most people are scrabling the HD/SD/ED/digial/analog terms all to heck.

    I think most of what people are saying is just getting jumbled up with terminoligy.
    Panasonic, RCA, Loewe, etc made DTV sets or sets capable of showing a 480p image that they accepted thru comp inputs. Now a DTV that can only accept and show 480p inputs is a still an SDTV. Now a tv that can only display 480p but can accept the 720p and 1080i signals is an EDTV. (further confused by Sharps little LCDs that claim to be EDTV but can't accept 720 or 1080. they are labled wrong) A TV that can show 720 or 1080 and can accept the signal is an HDTV.

    comp. video has never been a digital signal. yes it can pass 720 or 1080 but its all a digital signal converted to an analog transport medium. so your 'digital' sets that don't have DVI or HDMI inputs technically only have analog inputs. Just be happy they eliminated the need for horizontal and vertical sync cables.
     

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