Blueprint 1503 performance results and comparison to Tempest

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by TerryC, Dec 31, 2001.

  1. TerryC

    TerryC Stunt Coordinator

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    Went over to Lewis's house today to test his Blueprint 1503 that he bought to replace his Tempest driver in his 5.75ft3?(forgot exact size) box and tuned to 17.2hz with a couple Adire PR-15 passive radiators. He has a very large room and was getting to much bottoming for his requirements to use a Tempest so the 1503 was given a shot.
    We used a Liner X M-51 calibrated mic and set Spectra to read real world SPL numbers. Receiver was Denon 3802 and amp was either the Mackie M-1200 or M-1400 bot sure which but doesn't really matter either is a very powerful 1000W plus amp. Mic was placed on floor roughly 1 meter away.
    Here are a few incremental 100-17hz sine sweeps to show the SPL numbers and compression in this design(SPL are real world numbers):
    [​IMG]
    The sub isn't located in the best place as it is in an inside corner that has openings on either side a short distance away. My guess is with a true corner location the bottom end would be boosted considerably but maybe Lewis will know better as he did play with the location some.
    We found out that 2 PR-15's are a little too small with this driver as we were able to max them with a 17.5hz test tone before the driver showed any signs of stress although looking at the sweep above I have a feeling compression would have started in before hand at that 32hz area so not sure how viable that test was.
    Here are some photo's of the 1503 compared to the Tempest:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    And lastly here is a comparison sweep to show how the two compared:
    [​IMG]
    Blueprint is WAY less sensitive compared to the Tempest I'm guessing in the area of 7db less as we needed to turn down the volume considerably with the tempest directly after the blueprint test.
    Overall its a very good driver, not leaps and bounds better than the Tempest but it doesn't bottom(yet) and can play louder and is an incredible deal at only $219. I'll leave the subjective to Lewis. [​IMG]
     
  2. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    Wow, seeing it next to the Tempest you really begin to see how massive the motor on the 03 series is [​IMG]
     
  3. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    Hey thanks Terry,yes I'd like add a few things.
     
  4. Jack Gilvey

    Jack Gilvey Producer

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    Nice job as usual, Terry. Lewis, I didn't know you had ordered one, I'm glad you're happy with it. Your subjective impressions are interesting, these big-motor drivers might have a sound all their own. The Blueprints are astounding buys.
    Some questions/comments if I may:
    What were the limits imposed on the bottom SPL graph? Is that "max" SPL (before driver bottoming or observed PR overexcursion)?
    I'd also expect it to gain quite a bit from corner placement, as both alignments are somewhat overdamped. I was under the impression, maybe from D. Keele or T. Nousaine, that a 1-meter ground plane was equivalent to anechoic(?). It might be interesting to get some listening position plots with corner placement.
    As far as PR overexcursion, as noted it would most likely occur at high levels with material right at Fb, which will be rare in use. The easiest way to get more displacement would be to add another PR-15 to the fourth side, I suppose.
    I think I'd do that if at all possible, as running them full-tilt constantly would probably appreciably shorten their lives, and even PR's can exhibit some compression as they reach the limits of their suspension, even before the absolute mechanical limits, as compliance decreases (much less of an issue though, compared to realizeable ports). The 1503 actually has more linear Vd than an HE15, for which two 18's or three 15's would be considered ideal.
    I should post a picture of my 1803 next to my Shiva. Talk about "motor-envy". [​IMG]
     
  5. Gil D

    Gil D Supporting Actor

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    Terry,

    Could you explain what the multiple overlays represent in the graphs. Are they the response at different input levels?

    Is it possible to use a bass reflex design with the blueprint and have it fitted in a sonotube?

    Thanks,

    Gil
     
  6. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    Jack, please do, that should make for a good laugh [​IMG]
     
  7. TerryC

    TerryC Stunt Coordinator

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    Jack,
    Bottom graph in the first post above is Max SPL before Lots of THD. Yes the mic on the ground is supposed to mimic anechoic when done outside away from all corners but this was the best we could do. The Tempest actually started bottoming so we had to back off a couple db to get this somewhat clean reading. With the 1503 it was amp limited as the Mackie went into clipping so we had to back off a couple db on that too. Either way you can see both subs showing signs of distress at both 60hz and 32hz areas.
    I do have a after EQ seated result of the 1503. The seated result actually had a much smoother response with boosted bottom end but I'm sure there would be even more with a true corner placement.
    [​IMG]
    I think we only used 4 filters on the BFP to get this result. Boosted 20hz +3db, 25hz 3db, and a couple other higher frequencies were cut(I think 40hz and 63hz???).
    Gil,
    Yes, we ran a rather easy signal to get a true unstressed/undistorted reference reading and that is the lowest one. Then we turned up the volume roughly 5db each time and recorded the results until the drivers couldn't take it. As you can guess it gets pretty loud but my sweeps are only 30sec each so it doesn't last long.
    Yep Bass Reflex is easily workable with a 1503 and in a Sonotube. I haven't played with the sizes in a Sonotube to make sure the port fits but I know ThomasW made a large Arial SW12 clone that worked out great for him. Just copy his porting and internal volume and it should be awesome.
     
  8. Shawn Solar

    Shawn Solar Supporting Actor

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    Well that answers most of my questions concerning the 1503. Have it sitting in the corner just ready to go. Thanks for the great info. I plan on using a 160l enclosure with a 6" port 26" long. I got the 6" flared flanges from lightning audio. A local car audio dealer carried them so I bought them there. They cost about $50 canadian. I'll be doing the sonosub. 18" tube 43" long. Endcaps will be tripple thick. The outside of the tube will be done in pine.
     
  9. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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  10. Tim_Y_F

    Tim_Y_F Agent

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    (a.k.a. PK gum at another forum)

    Is blueprint better than a stryke HE15?

    The stryke 15 has only 22.85mm Xmax

    The blueprint has 25.86mm Xmax

    It seems to me that the only thing that stryke is better at than the Blueprint is the slightly larger magnet weight
     
  11. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    Tim/gum

    I've answered this qestion several times for you on the DIY audio forum. They are very similar in performance for the average HT user. 'Bench racing' T/S parameters between the two is useless.
     
  12. Tim_Y_F

    Tim_Y_F Agent

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    thomas

    heard in a thread that u are working (probably finished by now) on a klone of a Krell MR sub.

    Was/is this project a success?

    Didn't find this project on your website

    By the way, regarding your "12 shivas dancing", why don't you make a "12 Blueprints dancing"...
     
  13. Gil D

    Gil D Supporting Actor

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    Terry,

    Thanks for the info.

     
  14. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    Gil
    A link to the AS-15 project is HERE
    We use LspCAD Pro, combined with the Clio-Win Standard measurement system with a calibrated B&K 4133.
    For a single Tempest 4" flared ports work fine. The 6" flares are necessary for the HE-15/BPD-1503 and most likely the new Brahma 15" when it's available.
    I have a pair of HE-15's and a pair of 1503's. Both are very nice drivers for those that need to reproduce live rock concert SPL's 24/7.
    Personally I prefer the Shiva or Tempest in multiples. They go lower, need significantly less power and far less EQ.
    The currently available high excursion drivers have a high voice coil inductance this leads to rising output in the 70Hz region. As a result it's necessary to have a parametric EQ to drop the hump. Tempests/Shiva's don't have the hump because the VC inductance is fairly low. The new Brahma series from Adire is supposed to have the lowest VC inductance of any of the high excursion drivers.
    BFD is the Behringer Feedback Destroyer aka DSP1100P/DSP1124P. These are used as a low buck Parametric EQ. They are available all over the net for less than $140
     
  15. TerryC

    TerryC Stunt Coordinator

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    Thomas,

    I've seen you mention the higher VC inductance of these drivers a few times. Take a look at the Tempest/1503 graph above which are below the comparison pics. Notice they seem to perform relatively the same meaning the 1503 isn't appreciable more peaky in the Mid-Bas section compared to the Tempest.

    Any theories on this one???
     
  16. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    Terry
    Just a quick guess here but I think that there are significant room induced issues at work in the plots of Lewis's sub. I'd be curious to see nearfield plots of the 2 drivers.
    Here's a nearfield Clio sine swept plot of the HE-15 in the AS-15 box. Calibrated B&K 4133 was used. The hump is easy to see. I haven't had access to the Clio setup since getting the 1503's, so I don't have a plot of them.
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Tim_Y_F

    Tim_Y_F Agent

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    I simulated a 230L ported box tuned to 18Hz with a 7" tube.

    Its a definite design except one thing

    The driver, its a Blueprint 1503

    it has an F3 of 66Hz yet can do 116Db at 18Hz because theres a little hump of 1Db at 18Hz.

    After 30Hz the frequency response rises 3Db/octave to reach MAX output at 120Db at around 110Hz then flattens again

    Does it matter if the F3 is that high? If it does, then do I eliminate that rise using Parametric EQ...or is there a simpler way of doing it?

    Can't post the graph...its in my hard drive and this forum doesn't have an 'attach file' button
     
  18. TerryC

    TerryC Stunt Coordinator

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    He lives kinda far so it might be a while but I will do one(nearfield).

    Even if it is room induced wouldn't you think it would show the 1503 being louder in those frequencies as the only thing that changed was the driver?
     

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