BD-Live, Disney's Virtual Vault and Second Screen – where's all that content gone? (1 Viewer)

[Brent Reid]

Yes, they all deservedly died a quick death and were an obvious non-starter from the off. If ever a persuasive argument was needed against the impermanence of digital media 'ownership', they're definitely it. However, there were some cool and exclusive extras available, especially on the 11 titles featured on the Disney Second Screen website – now defaulting to DisneyStudiosHelp.com which doesn't mention it at all.

Naturally, I hung on to all my DVDs that contained copious extras later dropped from the BDs, like those in the Fantasia Anthology set. However, is there any way to access the wealth of extras that never appeared on any physical media?

 

[Brian Kidd]

Naturally, I hung on to all my DVDs that contained copious extras later dropped from the BDs, like those in the Fantasia Anthology set. However, is there any way to access the wealth of extras that never appeared on any physical media?

Not unless someone was able to capture them. Remember, you never own the digital content you pay for, you only own a license to watch it while it's available. It can go away at any time. The plus side of Movies Anywhere is that it's unlikely that every streaming service that uses it will go under all at once, but a studio can still pull their content at any time. Disney already did that when they pulled the extended Bedknobs & Broomsticks and replaced it with the theatrical cut. Lots of people bought baseball games through an early MLB service and lost all of them when that service shut down. Digital is fine for things you don't really care about keeping but it's essentially an extended rental period.

 

[bigshot]

I find Disney supplements to be the worst. There's good stuff in them but it's buried under tons of junk and it's very hard to find because of complicated authoring and menus.

 

[Brent Reid]

Not unless someone was able to capture them. Remember, you never own the digital content you pay for, you only own a license to watch it while it's available. It can go away at any time. The plus side of Movies Anywhere is that it's unlikely that every streaming service that uses it will go under all at once, but a studio can still pull their content at any time. Disney already did that when they pulled the extended Bedknobs & Broomsticks and replaced it with the theatrical cut. Lots of people bought baseball games through an early MLB service and lost all of them when that service shut down. Digital is fine for things you don't really care about keeping but it's essentially an extended rental period.

I agree with every word, Brian. I don't subscribe to any download or streaming services and watch virtually everything via BD and DVD. I avidly read numerous download/streaming-related articles and threads, and hear from more than enough unhappy campers to convince me to stick with physical media!

 

[Brian Kidd]

I find Disney supplements to be the worst. There's good stuff in them but it's buried under tons of junk and it's very hard to find because of complicated authoring and menus.

Sadly, they used to be among the best. I still love my Alice in Wonderland Archive Collection LD and the original DVD releases of Snow White and The Fantasia Anthology are tremendous. The Walt Disney Treasures sets were also chock full of quality supplemental material. Alas, current Disney suits aren't interested in quality.

 

[Jason_V]

And all those people who would comment to me that you will always have the content and it never goes away...

This is why I stick with physical media...

 

[MatthewA]

The single biggest drawback of physical media is finite space, but the trade-off of always having something as long as you want it is worth it. I won't say everything about streaming is bad, though, because it enabled me to see stuff that had been out of print for years. But the reason the uploaders were able to upload it is because they were the ones who actually have the physical media, even if it's not a DVD-quality source.

More than anyone else, Disney was probably the studio that made home video what it became despite their initial objections (i.e. being co-plaintiff in the Betamax Case), and now they're turning it into an afterthought while other studios and even independent distributors are doing the opposite. It doesn't have to be this way. Disney could add more genuine value to their releases rather than cheapening them with gimmicks or going the no-frills route. They don't. And it's mainly home video that seems affected by this. Meanwhile, the music division is continuing the Legacy Collection and still licensing unreleased live-action soundtracks to Intrada. So they seem to be paying more attention to what both casual fans and die-hards alike want, even if the releases I, personally, would like to see (expanded live-action musical soundtracks, remaining animated films such as Three Caballeros, Sword in the Stone, The Rescuers, and Buddy Baker's original Winnie the Pooh scoring sessions, along with some more of the Walt-era scores*) aren't out yet. They even started doing vinyl releases again.

*The Vault Disney DVD of Pollyanna had separate music, dialogue, and effects for the bazaar scene, giving me hope that Paul Smith's score still exists and will someday be released.

 

[Nick*Z]

The Mouse House really has lost all of my respect of late, and, subsequently my dollars (for the most part) too. I really cannot say which of their misfires pushed me over the edge, but I suspect it was a culmination of the following:

1) the truncated Bedknobs and Broomsticks receiving a hi-def release while the complete version - readily available to them remains MIA - dumb! Really dumb!

2) the company's idiotic stance on Song of the South as a 'racist' picture when, in fact, it features James Baskett in a superb performance and the Oscar-winning song, Zip-a-dee-do-dah! Ugh! You guys!

3) the absence of any extra content on their 'Disney Exclusive' Blu-rays when extra content currently exists and would cost them virtually nothing to include on these discs.

4) the 'exclusivity' of their live-action catalog ONLY made available in the U.S., hence, as someone living outside of the U.S. I must import all Disney Club titles through third party distributors at stifling fees. My order for the original The Parent Trap (which I am still waiting for) cost me $60. If I didn't love it so much I would have opted out on this one. The point is, Walt would have never denied families the rights to his beloved masterpieces. He wanted the influence of his pictures to circumvent the globe. How far-reaching do you think his pictures are today at $60 a pop? Only die hard collectors can afford that!

5) the virtual ignoring of Disney's live action back catalog. Still no 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, That Darn Cat, The Shaggy Dog, The Happiest Millionaire, Summer Magic, The Moon Spinners, etc. et al

6) the virtual ignoring of all Disney Touchstone/Caravan/Hollywood Pictures titles in hi-def. We need a remastered Tombstone on Blu-ray, also Hello Again, Pretty Woman - extended cut, Outrageous Fortune, I Love Trouble, While You Were Sleeping, Down and Out in Beverly Hills, etc. et al.

7) the complete lack of vintage Disney animated releases in theaters. I am old enough to recall when 'a return' of Snow White, or Cinderella, or Sleeping Beauty on the big screen was cause for excitement. Today's generation of children have been denied such a luxury.

8) the shoddier than anticipated release of Mary Poppins on Blu with waaaay too much digitized film grain during the opening credits and matte shots of Mr. Banks returning to the bank after hours. Honestly, where was quality control on this beloved title?!?

9) the horrendous digital scrubbing on The Sword and the Stone Blu-ray, not to mention the complete dust-busting obliteration of film grain in general on virtually every deep catalog Blu-ray release that makes vintage cell animation look as though it were conceived as a computer rendering.

10) the 2D only Blu-ray releases in North America of movies originally presented in both 3D and 2D in theaters. No choice with Disney Inc. Their way or no way. It's just bad marketing and PR.

And those are my top ten reasons why I really have contempt for the executive brain trust (and I use this terminology VERY loosely to describe those in charge today!) at the Walt Disney Co. Walt would never have stood for such abominations. Neither should his devoted fans.

 

[Jason_V]

7) the complete lack of vintage Disney animated releases in theaters. I am old enough to recall when 'a return' of Snow White, or Cinderella, or Sleeping Beauty on the big screen was cause for excitement. Today's generation of children have been denied such a luxury.

I'm not going to engage on any of the other points...but this one doesn't hold any weight for me. Not in 2018 when it is incredibly rare to find cinematic reissues of anything outside of special events. I know I'm likely an outlier, but I can pull any released DIsney movie off my shelf at any time and watch it. You can find a good number of Dis films on the shelf at Amazon or some B/M's. Sure, you have to think about the vault and whatnot (and then someone won't be happy with the transfer quality), but they are there.

 

[David Norman]

4) the 'exclusivity' of their live-action catalog ONLY made available in the U.S., hence, as someone living outside of the U.S. I must import all Disney Club titles through third party distributors at stifling fees. My order for the original The Parent Trap (which I am still waiting for) cost me $60. If I didn't love it so much I would have opted out on this one. The point is, Walt would have never denied families the rights to his beloved masterpieces. He wanted the influence of his pictures to circumvent the globe. How far-reaching do you think his pictures are today at $60 a pop? Only die hard collectors can afford that!

I'm not sure I understand this part for Canadians since they have virtually the access as the US. For people outside US and Canada I can sympathize a bit and makes it much harder though not impossible

The details for promotional codes for DMC-Canada is slightly different, but the last time I checked the deal was essentially up to 9 or 10 items for under $120 CAD

 

[Brian Kidd]

Nick,

1. Agreed. Stupid.

2. While I agree that the film was not intentionally racist when it was made, the animated segments are some of the company's funniest, and Baskett gave a wonderful performance, there's just no way that the film can be released in the U.S. any longer unless it is as a small, collectible release that is chock full of disclaimers. Having re-watched it not long ago, the characterizations of the African Americans are chock full of stereotypes. Honestly, I don't even think a boutique release would work, as the film has garnered such a reputation as being racist, whether or not it truly is, that the moment Disney were to announce it, there would be a HUGE backlash. Disney just doesn't see the point in risking it for an old film that has all but disappeared from the public consciousness outside of Splash Mountain.

3. Agreed.

4. I have no knowledge of the subject.

5. Very much agreed. I just bought the HD digital version of 20,000 Leagues and it's lovely. No reason to not release it on disc.

6. I don't understand this one at all outside of the fact that the disc market is drying up.

7. Theatrical re-releases are now, as was mentioned, one-night-only affairs. Plus, families can watch every animated film at home, any time they want. They aren't going to pay $13 per ticket (which is what the Fathom showings cost where I live) to take their whole family to see what they can watch at home. I loved seeing them in the theater, too, but home video killed that.

8. I don't doubt your observation, but I didn't notice it the last time I saw it, or at least it didn't draw attention to itself.

9. Agreed. Disney is really bad about scrubbing animation clean, sometimes to the point of damaging the image.

10. 3D TV is dead in the U.S. I love it, too, but facts are facts.

 

[MatthewA]

The same people who think Song of the South should still be embargoed also just had to do damage control on Roseanne (whose producers also enabled a man who raped a lesbian) on the heels of the disgrace of two key figures of its history that rose to prominence around the time of its disappearance from view. Taking that movie away changed nothing. I'll take that over a movie that completely whitewashes the history of suffragism* and straightwashes the homophobia of Edwardian Britain.** And why is that okay to censor but not Dumbo, The Aristocats, Lady and the Tramp, and Peter Pan?

*Bedknobs and Broomsticks does the exact opposite with the war effort against Hitler.
**Mr. McDowall, pick up the white courtesy phone.

 

[Nick*Z]

Nick,

2. While I agree that the film was not intentionally racist when it was made, the animated segments are some of the company's funniest, and Baskett gave a wonderful performance, there's just no way that the film can be released in the U.S. any longer unless it is as a small, collectible release that is chock full of disclaimers. Having re-watched it not long ago, the characterizations of the African Americans are chock full of stereotypes. Honestly, I don't even think a boutique release would work, as the film has garnered such a reputation as being racist, whether or not it truly is, that the moment Disney were to announce it, there would be a HUGE backlash. Disney just doesn't see the point in risking it for an old film that has all but disappeared from the public consciousness outside of Splash Mountain..

Dear Brian:

Film is a cultural artifact of its time. Times change. So do social mores. I notice a lot of blacksploitation flicks from the late sixties and early seventies getting Blu-ray releases without disclaimers even though the stereotypes depicted in them are hugely prejudicial.

And let's be clear here, if we're going to 'blacklist' every representation of African Americans appearing on film from Hollywood's golden age then we had better not release Gone With the Wind, Cabin in the Sky, Hallelujah, Mildred Pierce, Duel in the Sun, Show Boat, and a slew of other bona fide classics that have withstood the test of time, despite racial biases.

Art is never perfect. But it is relevant...if only as an illustration of just how far we have come in our evolution of human understanding. All - not just 'black' lives matter. Which is interesting, particularly when discussing film art, as stereotypes of Italians (Harpo Marxes and J Carroll Naishes who 'talk-a-like-diss), Germans (steely-eyed pro-Nazi), French (overly sexed Pepe Le Pews), and yes, even the English (the proverbial stuffy, uptight Brits) get a walk. We recognize the stereotype and simply run with it. Nobody complains. Nobody pickets or boycotts the movies in which they appear.

To deny those who remember Song of the South fondly, and those seeking to see what all the present-era hoopla about it is, access to a tradition that spoke well of Walt then, and I believe still does (he didn't set out to make a racist propaganda piece, nor do I believe he succeeded in as much, no matter what the pundits of either his own time or today say) is to deny the man and the studio an integral moment in their live action/animation canon of film art, later to pave the way for bigger - arguably 'better' things to come.

History is fact. Unflattering - but nevertheless true. If someone doesn't like it, hey - it's a free world - they do not have to see it. But NO ONE has either the power or the right to speak for the collective of humankind as though everyone ascribes to either the same perspective or reading of this film. Example: I tune out of movies that are gratuitous in their violence. What is gratuitous for me may not be for you or the next person.

So, how would it be if I forced everyone to watch nothing but musicals and Doris Day movies because I felt this was the way to promote a better society? Denying us all Song of the South isn't promoting a better understanding of race in America. You cannot judge others based on a skewed perspective shared by some (we could argue - many) but certainly not all. That's all my point was here. And by the way, when I use 'you' in a sentence, it is not directed at YOU specifically. I use it as the proverbial 'one' or 'they'. I hope that was clear. Not judging anyone for their opinions. But please, do not think less of me for mine!

 

[Brent Reid]

Jeebus. Mods: please step in and stop this deteriorating into yet another ranty Song of the South thread. We've had more than enough arguing and negativity in this forum of late.

In other news, I'm hereby announcing the inauguration of © Disney's Law. It's a bit like Godwin's Law, except it concerns the swift inevitability of someone posting a Song of the South diatribe in any Disney-related thread.

Then there's © Troll's Law, whereby someone is happy to drag a thread way off topic, yet steadfastly refuses to start their own thread, actually dedicated to said topic.

© Brent Reid, 2018

 

[MatthewA]

Godwin's law is a logical fallacy. The Nazis pruned my family tree. I'll invoke them as I see fit. And it fits like a glove here. Corporate censorship IS censorship whether you support it or not, and if you defend one act of it you enable a million more. And defending it in the private sector enables the public sector to try to do the same. I will not give Disney a dime until the film is available. Not one red penny. Stop defending them. Stop enabling them.

And it isn't just race that is keeping the film off. It's the business about Johnny's lace shirt collar. That kind of bullying still exists in the South and elsewhere. I know because I grew up with it. To attack the film and defend the suppression of it is to defend Johnny's bullies and the kind of mentality behind that behavior, plain and simple.

 

[Worth]

Corporate censorship IS censorship whether you support it or not, and if you defend one act of it you enable a million more. And defending it in the private sector enables the public sector to try to do the same. I will not give Disney a dime until the film is available. Not one red penny. Stop defending them. Stop enabling them.

While I'd like to see everything made available, I'm not sure that this is an example of "corporate censorship" so much as it is of plain old capitalism - the benefits of releasing it simply aren't outweighed by the costs.

 

[MatthewA]

But letting two little pigs named Harvey and John create a hostile work environment for 20 years was?

 

[Mike Frezon]

That's enough.

The topic of this thread is Disney bonus content.

No more sidebars.

 

[Jake Lipson]

Naturally, I hung on to all my DVDs that contained copious extras later dropped from the BDs, like those in the Fantasia Anthology set. However, is there any way to access the wealth of extras that never appeared on any physical media?

Unfortunately, probably not.

And regarding Fantasia...a bunch of that Virtual Vault content is actually also authored onto the Fantasia 2000 disc itself, but they didn't bother to put a link to it on the menu for some reason. See here:

http://www.dvdizzy.com/fantasia-fantasia2000-2moviecollectionb.html

 

[Brent Reid]

Thanks Jake. I actually posted that Fantasia BD info to DVDCompare a while back. I was hoping against hope in my OP but figured it was worth a try anyway.