Bass system for pro audio (1 Viewer)

[Greg_R]

I have a friend who would like to make a portable bass system for his band (and I'm helping with the design). They play in smaller venues (no more than 200 person rooms) and would like something that they could cart around in the back of a van. I already know where to get the case hardware (metal corners, handles, etc.) but am interested in any design issues for pro audio. Here are some that I've come up with:

- Sub must be sealed (things could be shoved down exposed ports)
- Sub doesn't need to go extremely low (25-30Hz is the limit for the bass and drum?)
- Sub needs to be durable (banging around in the back of a van on the way to gigs)
- Sub must be capable of high SPL to fill the large room.
- Sub will be passive (amp will be in equipment rack)

Would a stack of 4 Tempests with a Q around .8->.9 do the trick? Would running a full stack of larger and smaller drivers be a better solution? Thoughts?

 

[Fred Seger]

have you looked at the "LAB subwoofer"
here the cad, pictures
http://www.prosoundweb.com/lsp/
here is the forum http://www.prosoundweb.com/community/forum.php?board=3
Basically it's two 12" drivers in a horn design. good efficency. There was a long thread about here a couple months back. It's about 22"x45"x45" and about 250#.

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Greg,
Don’t waste your friend’s time and money using home audio equipment for pro applications.
Actually this is not the best place for advice like this. You should “cut to the chase” and consult the pros at the Live Audio Board.
That said, I can give a few pointers on your parameters:

- Sub will be passive (amp will be in equipment rack)

All pro subs are like this.
Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Ryan Schnacke]

The only home audio driver I can think of that might be close to what you want is the Maelstrom. In a small (relatively speaking) enclosure tuned to 30Hz it could pull double duty for HT and occaisional, small venue pro audio gigs. But still its a compromise. For full time pro use listen to Wayne's advise.

 

[Greg_R]

Thanks for the tips. It looks like we'll be going with 1 LAB horn, possibly 2. For anyone interested, here is a source for road case hardware.

 

[Brad Wood]

Sorry to disagree with Wayne, but all pro audio subs are not passive. Quality pro companies like EAW, Meyer and Turbsound make extremely high quality powered subs. In addition, Mackie has some excellent mid-level powered subs. The SRS-1500 is a 15" powered sub and works great. In my years as a live engineer, I've always been an EAW snob, so I was pretty surprised to hear how good that works. Mackie also just came out with a high powered 18" powered sub. It would be worth checking them out and maybe having your friend find a home for that other amp (another monitor mix maybe). Also, there are tons of other passive subs out there for pro use if that's the route you decide to take. Check out EV, JBL, etc.

I do have to agree with Wayne, keep the consumer products out of your PA set up. HT subs are great, but the vast majority would be unable to handle the RMS power necessary to fill a room and the voice coil heat that is generated over a typical 3-4 hour club gig. In addition, the transients generated by a mic'd kick drum or plucked bass guitar is far different than even the most dynamic passage of a pre-recorded and compressed piece of music.

Good luck on your search and feel free to drop me a line if you have any questions

Brad Woodhouse
Edina, MN

 

[Rory Buszka]

2 LABHorns. You need one per side.

And you'll be the envy of other bands with the most bass on the block. Loud and clear down to 22 Hz off of just 800 watts per cabinet

People flick their BIC lighters and watch it blow out with just a beat of the kick drum

The drivers for the LABhorns are at Parts Express (Eminence LAB12 specially-designed for the LABHorn). Reasonable pricing.

I think that they should be called the Danley LABHorns to credit their creator, Tom Danley of ServoDrive.

 

[Dan Hine]

but the vast majority would be unable to handle the RMS power necessary

Well, that's not exactly accurate. The Brahma series drivers "can" handle 4800watt peaks in the right enclosure. It's just that "the right" enclosure for those subs isn't a good match for live audio. The main reason why home subs (and speakers) aren't good for PA use is that they are not efficient enough. It would take even a Maelstrom 4times as much power to reach the levels some something like Eminence's 15" Kilomax driver.

I too would go with the LAB Basshorns but if you think they might be a bit too complicated then good results can be achieved using Eminence Kilomax and Magnum drivers. Both are available from parts express for pretty good prices.

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Sorry to disagree with Wayne, but all pro audio subs are not passive. Quality pro companies like EAW, Meyer and Turbsound make extremely high quality powered subs. In addition, Mackie has some excellent mid-level powered subs.

Now that you mention it, I did see some active (powered) Meyer mains a few years ago. Guess I shoulda known a powered sub wasn’t far behind.
Thanks for setting me straight, Brad.
Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Rory Buszka]

Dual ported Eminence 15" magnums in a bass bin should do you well for some good bass in a smaller package. If your main speakers are trapezoidal, you can build the subs as trapezoidal stands for the mains. There's some nice features in the Magnum series.

 

[Dan Hine]

Rory (or anyone),

Pardon my ignorance, but is a "bass bin" a special type of enclosure or is it just a fancy name from a different era?

 

[Rory Buszka]

Actually a bass bin is just the name for a big, cavernous woofer box (makes one think of a bin, especially horn-loaded subs that have big holes you could throw stuff into. When you go to big concerts and see their huge arrays of basshorns, you say "I'm going to go hang out by the bass bins" and then you go there and get your pant legs flapped by a huge slab of air that (in the case of the LABHorns) moves as much as 3 inches in either direction.

 

[Mark Seaton]

Hi Rory,

Good to see people excited about the LAB Horn, but I do think you had a little type-o there with the performance. *With proper grouping or boundary loading* the LAB horn will be ~-3dB ~28Hz, with response to about 25Hz depending on how many are used and how they are loaded in a space or together. You will see significant output with as little as 400W, and if you realy wanted you could probably push a good 1600W into the pair of drivers.

Regards,