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Austrian F1 Grand Prix (1 Viewer)

Michael St. Clair

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At least Fangio had to race for his 5 titles.

Can anybody imagine guys like Hill and Brabham and Clark and Andretti being involved with crap like this?
 

MikeAlletto

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I don't really have a problem with it. Barrichelo is number 2. Plain and simple. The only reason he is on that team is to help the number 1 driver win the championship. If the points were reversed Michael would have gotten the call to move over.

Its a business, they are there to win the championship, driver and constructor. Michael is leading the points, why not do whatever you can and get him as many points as possible. They aren't there to make each other feel special. A wins a win, doesn't matter how you get it.

At least Fangio had to race for his 5 titles.
You can't say that Michael has not raced for his titles. The point of having teammates on the track is also to help whoever is leading the points to get more points.
 

Luc D

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It defeats the purpose of competition. Barrichello was faster than Schumacher during the entire race. The entire Ferrari organization should be embarrassed.
 

MikeAlletto

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You could say that Barrichello was faster only because he was leading. If Michael was leading I bet he would be faster. There are many things wrong with F1 and this is just one of them.
 

Michael St. Clair

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Racing, as a sport, depends on fans. Keep this up, and there won't be enough of them. The majority of the fans in the stands today were either stunned silent, or outwardly disgusted.

The races have been very predicatable this year. Today we got a glimpse of how much more predicatable they will become.

From the post-race press conference:

Q: Michael do you want to win the world championship because you are the best racer or because you have got the best contract?

MS: (No comment)

Q: All three of you are talking about this as a team sport. Why do we have an individual world championship for drivers?

All drivers: (No comment)
 

MikeAlletto

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Q: All three of you are talking about this as a team sport. Why do we have an individual world championship for drivers?
Isn't more of the emphasis put on the contructors competition anyways? The drivers championship is secondary? It's the constructors that pay the bills, get the ads and hire the drivers to driver their cars.
Does it suck? Definitely, but thats the way it is.
 

Chris Derby

Second Unit
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It was obvious that Michael wasn't happy at all about the situation. I dont' think it would have been so much of an issue had he been closer (read: within striking distance) to Barichello throughout the weekend and if Rubens hadn't had to slow so much to let him pass.

Michael also said that they told him on the last lap the Rubens was going to pull aside for him. I almost wonder if they'd told him the lap prior, if he would have told them to let Rubens win it. I think that Michael made his feelings on the situation known by letting Barichello take the top of the podium as well as the winners spot in the after race interview.
 

Peter Kim

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I was a M. Schumacher fanatic. Not anymore.

I was a F1 fanatic. Not anymore.

I used to rationalize team orders. Not anymore.

I understand MikeAlletto's analysis, and agree with it in theory. F1 is such a huge team sport and tremendous, international big business. As such, the 'business' is governed by these parameters.

However, strip away the money, prestige, and "team spirit", and what remains is the heart of this sport - racing. At least, that is what should be at the core of this sport. And, is it not a sport, first and foremost? Or has the business end completely superseded the sporting aspect?

Rubens was faster than Michael. Yet Michael won the race.

Anyone...if what happened today was acceptable, why was Michael so shamefaced? Why were the tifosi stunned and silenced? Why did Michael urge Rubens to stand in the winner's position on the podium (a completely patronizing and vacuous gesture)? Why are fans so angry?

What happened today reduced this venture from the higher, sport plane to a business. I'd rather watch the ongoing antics of Enron and the imminent indictment of the Wall Street analysts for 'business' entertainment. For sport...well, I guess I have to find something else to captivate me.
 

CarlS

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Aug 15, 2000
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Clearly, Ferrari has the best car by far and the best driver. No one in their right mind could honestly believe that anyone other than Schuey will win this year's championship. As long as he doesn't get taken out in the first corner, he will very likely win. What they did today was totally unnecessary.

I had already been leaning toward not watching the rest of this season because it is so boring with the lack of competition, but this kind of crap cements the deal for me.
 

Peter Kim

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CarlS...your analysis is exact. Why even play the sport if you are so confident in the outcome? Should the other teams in St. Louis's conference have conceded victories to the Rams last year, knowing that St. Louis would run away with the conference title and the Super Bowl?
Can you imagine the rest of the NFC cheering on the Rams during the season. New England wasn't going to beat the Rams, so let's make it easy for them.
I think EVERYONE has seen the impossible in sport. One of, if not the most beautiful thing about real sport is event of the underdog. My favorite college basketball game of all time was when UNLV was defeated by Duke, thus preventing UNLV from repeating as champions. And keeping UNLV from a perfect season.
Team orders in F1 diminishes much of the inherent potential and subsequent beauty of auto racing. And the notion of competition.
Finally, after combing www.f1-live.com for coverage, I see that Michael states that the team order and eventual win wasn't his decision. As if Michael really believes he's a pawn in the F1 hierarchy? Does he think the fans are so stupid to believe his nonsense?
This is a man that controls Ferrari. To state that he succumbed to team orders...if this man had any idea of what sportsmanship meant, he would've defied team orders and let Rubens rightfully win the race. What would Ferrari do if Michael rejected team orders? Fire him? Yeah, right.:rolleyes
 

Chris Derby

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I see your point... But look @ it this way. What if he had gone against team orders and let Rubens win? Then, for some wierd reason Michael has a DNF... If he loses the drivers championship by the 2 points that he gained by winning today, I'm sure that they'd think about reconsidering his contract. Granted, they may not fire him, but they wouldn't be happy.

If Barrichello was in a better standing in the championship, he would have been allowed to win the race. I think this was only his 2nd finish of the year.
 

AjayM

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What a total PR nightmare for Ferrari, on top of dogging the "little guy" who has been in control and on top of his game all weekend (and for the past few races), they went back on their word which had been stated very publicly that they would never ask the #2 Ferrari guy to move over if he was winning.

This was just a total screw up on Ferrari's part, MS has a commanding lead of the championship, so much so that he can sit out 2 races and Montoya would win both and MS would still be leading the Championship. Also wouldn't it make sense to try and get Rubens some points so he can run blocker just in case MS was out for a few races? Or at least have a Ferrari 1-2 in the championship?

I understand the strategy behind this, but no matter what happens in the end it has just cheapened the sport. If Ferrari and MS win the championship by less than 4 points, we know that MS doesn't really deserve the championship, if he does win by more than 4 points all you have done is taken another crack at the confidence of your #2 driver.

Andrew
 

CharlesD

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Team orders are a part of F1 like it or not, McLaren were doing the same thing a few years ago with 1/10th the controversy of Schumacher and Ferrari doing it.

Having said that, and I am a long time F1 and Ferrari fan, I am still disgusted by what they did today. I could accept it if the Championship was close, but it isn't. If Schumacher was 2nd, he would still increase his huge lead in the points. Its just wrong to do this.

I don't blame Barichello or Schumacher for this, they are employees of Ferrari and they do what they are told, but I do think the FIA should make Ferrari forfeit it's points.
 

Peter Kim

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Post race press conference:

Michael Schumacher:
I'm sure that the way Rubens drove today he has a lot of opportunities to secure victories this year and I told him on the podium that I hope that the championship is soon finished so we can go for real racing. I'm sure he's going to win loads of races.
Real racing? As opposed to fixed? Or non?
 

Peter Kim

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Isn't more of the emphasis put on the contructors competition anyways? The drivers championship is secondary? It's the constructors that pay the bills, get the ads and hire the drivers to driver their cars.
Without a doubt, the most important title in F1 is the individual championship. When Ferrari won the constructor's and McLaren/Hakkinen won the driver's a few years back, EVERYONE looked at McLaren and Hakkinen as the best.

The constructor's title is consolation if the driver's title is not won.
 

Ken Wagner

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Feb 21, 1999
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This truly was poor judgement. Sure it's a business, what sport today isn't. And just like other sports the team with the most money wins, usually. I'll bet Rueben's heart just about dropped out of the car when he got the word to pull over. The fans sure didn't like what happened. That said, if someone paid me $30 million a year to drive I'd squat and plant it anywhere they told me to. Still it must be a hard pill to swallow for everyone involved.

It will be hard to follow F1 the rest of the season. I will say that Michael in the Ferrari is the best driver out there. Put another driver in the big Red car and they may do just as well. Unless F1 tries to establish some parity, and I know that's not what F1 is all about, there may not be anyone to watch soon. It's hard enough to watch a F1 race where there are few opportunities to pass and then have only a few cars that are competitive. Don't ask me how to do this, I'm not making $30 Mil. a year.
 

Chris Derby

Second Unit
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Oct 31, 2000
Messages
371
Forgive me if this is off topic.

Likewise, in World Superbike, Ducati consistantly wins the constructors championship because there are so many of them fielded. There are many more 996/998s on the track than Hondas, Aprilias, Kawasakis, and Suzukis (dare I mention the lone Benelli?).
 

Graeme Clark

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Likewise, in World Superbike, Ducati consistantly wins the constructors championship because there are so many of them fielded.

It's a little different in F1 though. The constructors championship is by the teams (Since each team designs and manufactures their own cars). So each team has 2 cars in the race able to get the team points of the constructors championship.

While I am not pleased with what Ferrari did, and especially the way they went about it, I mainly feel sorry for Rubens. He's been doing a magnificent job this season, and really deserves better. I was hoping that they'd let him keep this race as some compensation for the terrible luck that he's had. I don't think letting me think he won the race is going to be quite the same.

The move might be smart for Ferarri, but it may also be meaningless. That's the thing with sports, even if it's fixed, you never know whats going to happen. And to be honest, Ferarri really only has control over two of the cars on the track. It's not like they decided that Shumi was going to win the race at the start. Despite what some people are saying, this ISN'T the WWF.
 

Yee-Ming

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didn't Ferrari do the same thing last year (or was it the year before) when Rubens was ordered to pull over, and he only did at the last moment after some obvious swerving and blocking to show his discontent?

anyway, team orders are team orders, remember a few years ago when Schumi was out for a long while with the broken leg, by the time he returned he had no shot at the title, and he drove a brilliant "blocking" race at Malaysia running interference for his then-teammate Eddie Irvine, to help Irvine win. of course, in the end Irvine still wasn't good enough to win the driver's championship and break Ferrari's then long-running duck of about 27 years -- Ferrari won the constructors, but no-one was interested in the consolation.
 

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