Are theater chains reducing sound quality in non-IMAX theaters? (1 Viewer)

[steve jaros]

This is purely anecdotal but thought I'd toss it out here anyway. There are two AMC theater complexes in my town, both fairly new, built in the past 10 or so years. The experience at them is modern and up to date and I patronize them frequently. Both have an "IMAX" theater within their complex.

This past week, I saw "Captain America" twice, once at each theater complex. Both times in 3D but not IMAX. While the 3D picture quality was awesome, I noticed that in both showings, the sound, while loud and crisp, seemed to be coming almost entirely from the front of the theater. There was virtually no surround-sound whatsoever. Also, almost no rumbly deep-bass action either. I noticed the same thing when I saw "Batman vs Super Man" at one of these theaters in March.

Now, it beggars belief to me that both of these immensely expensive big-budget, state of the art SFX movies did not come mixed with state of the art surround sound. And yet I didn't get that in my showings.

But, I have also recently noticed that when I see a film in the IMAX theater at each complex, the surround sound is very much in evidence. It's a very noticeable difference.

Last week I also saw "The Huntsman" at a Movie Tavern, a complex in which all the theaters are the same, there is no special IMAX or ETS or XD theater. I was stunned by how good the surround sound was in this theater for that movie and noted that it contrasted with what I was experiencing at the AMC and also the local Cinemark complex, which has a special "XD" theater that has boosted sound and picture quality.

So my question is: Is it possible that the theater complexes are purposefully *reducing* the sound quality in the non-IMAX theaters, reducing the surround effects and the like, so as to provide more of a contrast with the IMAX experience and thus induce us to buy the pricier IMAX tickets?

Or am I just spouting a wild conspiracy hunch here? Anyone notice anything similar in their experiences?

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I'll begin with the caveat that I'm not the biggest or best surround sound enthusiast..

But I can't imagine theaters intentionally downgrading something, if only because I can't imagine them going out of their way to make adjustments to all of the different theaters in a complex just so that one appears better than the rest. It would be a lot of time, money and effort, which are three things that I really don't see being expended by theaters today.

I believe it's possible that one theater chain could have installed better equipment, or additional speakers that are extended the surround sound into additional speakers beyond a standard arrangement, but I guess I find it a little harder to believe that other chains are intentionally removing stuff to degrade the experience.

 

[Alf S]

The huge new high end theater complex they built last year by our house has top of the line surround set ups in pretty much every screen they have there. Atmos in several of them actually I believe.

 

[Rob W]

I think this falls into the category of wild conspiracy theory. It's probably likely ( although not acceptable ) for a sound system to drift out of alignment over time in a megaplex with many screens. Imax, however, has a proprietary calibration system that is run on a daily basis pre-opening to fine-tune the audio. It runs for at least 20 minutes, so your Imax experience should be prime each and every time.

These same chains are also installing Dolby Atmos systems ( which are extremely expensive to retrofit existing auditoriums ) which goes completely against your theory. Quality-wise, many people feel they now leave the Imax systems far behind.

 

[KPmusmag]

There is a Regal theater near me with 13 auditoriums, one of which is IMAX. I do not pay extra for the IMAX, because their screen is damaged and has blotches on it that really distract me. I have learned with experience that there are only 3 out of the other 12 that provide an excellent movie experience. The other 9 are not only small, but show 2.35 movies letterboxed with no masking, and there is no surround sound that I can detect. I always go ahead of time and ask at the ticket booth which auditorium the movie I want is in. They typically seem a bit annoyed, but I refuse to pay the same ticket price for one of their lesser auditoriums.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

For the IMAX screen, you should let IMAX know that there's a problem. In my experiences with them, they are very responsive to customer comments, be it praise or a complaint. They run a credit at the end of every presentation with the email address for the Chief Quality Officer:

[email protected]

If there was a problem with your screening, let them know!

 

[KPmusmag]

For the IMAX screen, you should let IMAX know that there's a problem. In my experiences with them, they are very responsive to customer comments, be it praise or a complaint. They run a credit at the end of every presentation with the email address for the Chief Quality Officer:

[email protected]

If there was a problem with your screening, let them know!

I did some years ago and it never changed, at least up to the last time I went, which was a while ago, I admit. On that visit, I brought the manager into the theater afterwards and showed her the blotches, she acknowledged what I was seeing and gave me passes to another show, which was decent of her. I did go to the website and let them know; I guess I should give it another chance.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I did some years ago and it never changed, at least up to the last time I went, which was a while ago, I admit. On that visit, I brought the manager into the theater afterwards and showed her the blotches, she acknowledged what I was seeing and gave me passes to another show, which was decent of her. I did go to the website and let them know; I guess I should give it another chance.

Yeah, I would definitely reach out again if you've got them time. Last year, I remember I went to see "Tomorrowland" and I heard this subtle buzzing from one of the behind-the-screen speakers. It was one of those things that probably most people won't notice, but once you hear it, you can't unhear it. I emailed IMAX to let them know, not asking or looking for a refund or anything, but just to hopefully get it taken care of. They wrote back to me by the end of the day and let me know that they were going to check into it. They apparently have the ability from their central headquarters to look into the daily system calibration at each theater and check the logs to see how things are looking and sounding. The buzz was intermittent or small enough not show up on there, but they sent a tech the next day to physically inspect it, and discovered a problem with one of the speakers. The speaker was replaced within a couple days, and they wrote back to confirm that it had been taken care of. And when I saw another movie in that same theater a couple weeks later, sure enough, the problem had been fixed. They also emailed me some passes for my trouble. If they were willing to go to that much trouble over one speaker that probably no one else would notice, I would hope that they'd at least look into repairing a screen with visible defects.

 

[steve jaros]

I'll begin with the caveat that I'm not the biggest or best surround sound enthusiast..

But I can't imagine theaters intentionally downgrading something, if only because I can't imagine them going out of their way to make adjustments to all of the different theaters in a complex just so that one appears better than the rest. It would be a lot of time, money and effort, which are three things that I really don't see being expended by theaters today.

FWIW, today I saw "Criminal" at one of these AMC complexes. This is an action movie with lots of shooting, explosions, and car chases, and it was not in IMAX or 3D. Immediately I noticed that the surround sound was evident and the bass was booming, a very good sound experience.

My first thought was "well, that blows the theory I posted on HTF out of the water, because this isn't IMAX and yet the sound is great".

But then on second thought, it occurred to me that the theater has no incentive to dumb-down the sound of a movie that isn't playing in the IMAX theater. They only have an incentive to do it to a movie that is playing in both the IMAX theater and non-IMAX theaters, and right now that is just Captain America.

You raise the issue of cost, but I know on my home receiver, if i want to switch from DTS-HD 7.1 to regular 2-channel stereo, I can do that by pushing a button. I realize a movie theater might be more complex than that, but then again, maybe it just takes the push of a button there too.

Maybe I am just in too much of a conspirator mode?

 

[Josh Steinberg]

FWIW, today I saw "Criminal" at one of these AMC complexes. This is an action movie with lots of shooting, explosions, and car chases, and it was not in IMAX or 3D. Immediately I noticed that the surround sound was evident and the bass was booming, a very good sound experience.

My first thought was "well, that blows the theory I posted on HTF out of the water, because this isn't IMAX and yet the sound is great".

But then on second thought, it occurred to me that the theater has no incentive to dumb-down the sound of a movie that isn't playing in the IMAX theater. They only have an incentive to do it to a movie that is playing in both the IMAX theater and non-IMAX theaters, and right now that is just Captain America.

You raise the issue of cost, but I know on my home receiver, if i want to switch from DTS-HD 7.1 to regular 2-channel stereo, I can do that by pushing a button. I realize a movie theater might be more complex than that, but then again, maybe it just takes the push of a button there too.

Maybe I am just in too much of a conspirator mode?

In my opinion, it's not fair to compare the sound from the IMAX version to the regular version, as they're showing different masters. IMAX movies have been specifically remastered for IMAX screens, including a unique DCP with specially mastered audio and video. So it's not playing the same audio track that's showing on a regular screen. If we could know with 100% certainty that the system was playing the same audio signal through both, it would make it easier to compare.

Maybe it's matter that for some cases the local theater is playing just the 5.1 or 7.1 soundtrack included with the movie, and for others, they have additional processing information that's making "fake" extra surround noises? The way that a home receiver can put a 2.0 soundtrack through 7.1 speakers if you want it to?

Your local movie theater probably makes more from their regular screenings than they do for IMAX showings. IMAX charges more, but beyond the percentage they normally have to give back to the studio, they also have to give an additional percentage to the IMAX company. That's why a lot of chains have developed the so-called "premium large format" auditorium (I say "so-called" because these auditoriums show the same DCP as the regular version; the movie itself has not been visually enhanced to show on a larger screen, which is currently something only IMAX provides) - they can charge a premium for the larger screen but don't have to pay a percentage to IMAX. So in terms of money, your local theater would probably prefer that you see the movie on one of their regular or 3D screens instead of in IMAX.

 

[Chris Will]

I just don't think most theater chains calibrate their audio that often, if ever.

My local AMC's IMAX is a converted auditorium so the screen is nowhere near as big as true IMAX but, I still love it because of the audio. It's the best sounding screen in town so I don't mind going, even with the smaller lieMAX screen.

 

[steve jaros]

In my opinion, it's not fair to compare the sound from the IMAX version to the regular version, as they're showing different masters. IMAX movies have been specifically remastered for IMAX screens, including a unique DCP with specially mastered audio and video. So it's not playing the same audio track that's showing on a regular screen. If we could know with 100% certainty that the system was playing the same audio signal through both, it would make it easier to compare.

To clarify, my complaint isn't based on a comparison of IMAX vs regular version. I get that the IMAX version should be better. What I am saying is that the regular version of Captain America I saw had basically no surround sound and no deep bass. Not in comparison to IMAX, but compared to what I would expect a regular version to have. So the net result is that basically the theater seems to be saying "if you want to see CA here with good sound, you need to buy an IMAX ticket". And the price difference here is substantial. I saw CA on Tuesday at a first matinee for $5. IMAX would have cost $11.

And that's why I mentioned "Criminal". I saw the regular version of Criminal today in the same complex that I saw the regular (3D) version of Captain America on Tuesday. And the sound for Criminal was FAR better than the sound for CA. Criminal had deep bass and plenty of surround action, CA had very little of either. And I can't believe that Disney spent $250 million on CA and didn't provide it with sound as good as Lionsgate's $30 million budget did for Criminal.

Alright, so now I'm all lathered up about this, LOL.

 

[Wayne_j]

You're lucky, IMAX tickets here are around $20. Regular screens $9 something for matinees and $12 something for evening.

 

[Everett S.]

This is purely anecdotal but thought I'd toss it out here anyway. There are two AMC theater complexes in my town, both fairly new, built in the past 10 or so years. The experience at them is modern and up to date and I patronize them frequently. Both have an "IMAX" theater within their complex.

This past week, I saw "Captain America" twice, once at each theater complex. Both times in 3D but not IMAX. While the 3D picture quality was awesome, I noticed that in both showings, the sound, while loud and crisp, seemed to be coming almost entirely from the front of the theater. There was virtually no surround-sound whatsoever. Also, almost no rumbly deep-bass action either. I noticed the same thing when I saw "Batman vs Super Man" at one of these theaters in March.

Now, it beggars belief to me that both of these immensely expensive big-budget, state of the art SFX movies did not come mixed with state of the art surround sound. And yet I didn't get that in my showings.

But, I have also recently noticed that when I see a film in the IMAX theater at each complex, the surround sound is very much in evidence. It's a very noticeable difference.

Last week I also saw "The Huntsman" at a Movie Tavern, a complex in which all the theaters are the same, there is no special IMAX or ETS or XD theater. I was stunned by how good the surround sound was in this theater for that movie and noted that it contrasted with what I was experiencing at the AMC and also the local Cinemark complex, which has a special "XD" theater that has boosted sound and picture quality.

So my question is: Is it possible that the theater complexes are purposefully *reducing* the sound quality in the non-IMAX theaters, reducing the surround effects and the like, so as to provide more of a contrast with the IMAX experience and thus induce us to buy the pricier IMAX tickets?

Or am I just spouting a wild conspiracy hunch here? Anyone notice anything similar in their experiences?

Anything is possible, but I don't think this is happening. More likely since there are no more projectionists anymore, no one is checking for sound problems at each showing. They might have a blown amp or speaker.When I was a manager I used to check each screen everey showing, for temperature also. On weekends I ran all 3 booths myself. One day I came back after my day off and one film was showing one thw wall about 2ft. to the left.

This is purely anecdotal but thought I'd toss it out here anyway. There are two AMC theater complexes in my town, both fairly new, built in the past 10 or so years. The experience at them is modern and up to date and I patronize them frequently. Both have an "IMAX" theater within their complex.

This past week, I saw "Captain America" twice, once at each theater complex. Both times in 3D but not IMAX. While the 3D picture quality was awesome, I noticed that in both showings, the sound, while loud and crisp, seemed to be coming almost entirely from the front of the theater. There was virtually no surround-sound whatsoever. Also, almost no rumbly deep-bass action either. I noticed the same thing when I saw "Batman vs Super Man" at one of these theaters in March.

Now, it beggars belief to me that both of these immensely expensive big-budget, state of the art SFX movies did not come mixed with state of the art surround sound. And yet I didn't get that in my showings.

But, I have also recently noticed that when I see a film in the IMAX theater at each complex, the surround sound is very much in evidence. It's a very noticeable difference.

Last week I also saw "The Huntsman" at a Movie Tavern, a complex in which all the theaters are the same, there is no special IMAX or ETS or XD theater. I was stunned by how good the surround sound was in this theater for that movie and noted that it contrasted with what I was experiencing at the AMC and also the local Cinemark complex, which has a special "XD" theater that has boosted sound and picture quality.

So my question is: Is it possible that the theater complexes are purposefully *reducing* the sound quality in the non-IMAX theaters, reducing the surround effects and the like, so as to provide more of a contrast with the IMAX experience and thus induce us to buy the pricier IMAX tickets?

Or am I just spouting a wild conspiracy hunch here? Anyone notice anything similar in their experiences?

 

[Everett S.]

Anything is possible, but I don't think this is happening. More likely since there are no more projectionists anymore, no one is checking for sound problems at each showing. They might have a blown amp or speaker.When I was a manager I used to check each screen everey showing, for temperature also. On weekends I ran all 3 booths myself. One day I came back after my day off and one film was showing one thw wall about 2ft. to the left.

I wrote this this morning,I did not check it.waki waki !

 

[Josh Steinberg]

To clarify, my complaint isn't based on a comparison of IMAX vs regular version. I get that the IMAX version should be better. What I am saying is that the regular version of Captain America I saw had basically no surround sound and no deep bass. Not in comparison to IMAX, but compared to what I would expect a regular version to have.

But if you haven't seen the regular version, how can you say for sure? The sound mix on the IMAX version could be entirely different - it could have had additional sound effects added, and it could have had the bass cranked up. If it's not the same sound mix, then there's no basis for comparison, that was my only point.

I just don't think it's likely that a theater is intentionally degrading one showing to try to make another look better, especially if the theory is that they're degrading showings they make more money on (standard showings) to try to push people into a showing they make less money on (IMAX showings). I think it's more likely that "Criminal" had a more active sound mix. I also think it's likely that the sound systems have not been calibrated in the non-IMAX theaters in ages. We also don't know if the theater that showed it with more impressive surround was an Atmos theater (different sound mix) or if they had a different alignment of speakers, or a different processor sending different signals to the speakers. Let's say Captain America: Civil War came with a 7.1 surround mix for the regular DCP. Maybe one theater is playing the 7.1 mix directly, and maybe the other has some additional signal processing somewhere in the chain which is sending different things to different speakers. (The same way your receiver at home can spread a 2.0 signal to 5.1 speakers to make it sound bigger.) There are a lot of reasons why the sound could appear different from one theater to another, but I just have a really hard time believing that they're making standard showings sound inferior on purpose to try to get you to go to IMAX. How would anyone notice? How would that benefit the theater? Do they hope people walk out of one of the many multiplex screens showing the movie right then and ask to exchange their tickets to IMAX? Do they hope people will avoid all regular showings and only visit when it's showing in IMAX? It just doesn't really seem to make sense to me as far as evil master plans go.

 

[PaulDA]

Incompetence is ALWAYS a likelier culprit than a conspiracy (whether political, criminal or, in this case, theatrical). To actively sabotage audio in one screening area to "encourage" people to go to the IMAX version instead would be far more of a hassle than it could possibly be worth. However, being lazy about checking sound equipment in rooms where regular calibration is not required (most things not IMAX, essentially)--that's something I'd actually bet money on. Occam's Razor applies here.

 

[Lord Dalek]

This whole thread makes me long for the days when THX Certification was not only a thing but a badge of pride that had to be rigorously maintained (which Regal and Cinemark didn't when they bought the Act III and Century chains).

 

[Dave Moritz]

One of the reasons I stopped going to my local AMC theaters! I got tired of going to see a movie where the sound was turned up to the point of distortion. I started going to the Edwards chain which was turned into Regal Entertainment. The local theater that is uptown you can here the bass from the adjacent room. I have not had any bad experiences with sound quality from Regal so far. When I really want to step it up I will try and go to the Archlight theater or the Gramans Chinese Theater. Now granted AMC did get around to fixing there sound issues but after going to the Edwards theaters and preferring them I just stopped going to AMC all together.