Alien: Covenant (2017) (1 Viewer)

[WillG]

Watched this on blu-ray and appreciated it a lot more than when I saw it in the theater. Maybe knowing what to expect helped it out a lot more. I went in to the theater hoping for a direct continuation of Prometheus, which I greatly enjoyed.

For those interested in the mythology, there are 2 extras on the blu-ray that are very nice. The first is the extended opening sequence with David and Weyland. There is only one bit of extended dialog but boy is it a doozie. As David sits at the piano, he explains the piece he is playing. It goes a very long way to explain the actions of the Engineers in Prometheus, as well as David's decision to wipe them out when arriving at their planet. This is less than a minute of added dialogue, and I have no idea why they decided to cut it out.

The second piece is called 'Advent' and is in the 'Section 42 - Planet 6' or whatever named feature in the extras menu. This goes a loooong way to fill in the gaps between Covenant and the original Alien and explains the Company's interest in getting the alien in the original film. David also refers to Daniels with a very specific term that I won't spoil here but will make you go 'Oh, shit'. Or really piss you off, depending on your feelings of how they are handling the story. I suspect they may have created this, in case further films do not ever get made.

At any rate, those two extras are not to be missed.

I watched on 4K the other day and (even though I didn't hate the movie as much as some others did) I think it worked a little better for me as well. It must be said that the movie looks gorgeous (especially in 4K). Ridley's flair for visual design has always been his greatest strength as a filmmaker and Covenant is no exception.

I think I understood the motivations of some of the characters a little better, especially Russell Hammond's. I think the talk he has with one of them where she says "Once we get to x, these people won't be your crew anymore, they'll be your neighbors" explains to me a little better why he decides to go off mission. Also, if you really look, it's not like he put his face right up to that egg (and even if, it's no different than what Kane did in the original) and he's not fully expecting David, a synthetic, to actually be murderous. I like the few moments that the crew were breaking each other's balls a little bit before setting down on the planet. Much better than the cantankerous Prometheus crew.

I liked the conversations between David and Walter, but another layer was added for me when I realized that.....

Spoiler

Walter spoke with a different accent than David and that David needed to learn how to talk like Walter

Of course, callbacks to Goldsmith's iconic "Alien" score are always more than welcome.

The problems the movie has will always still be there. I can only identify 3-4 of the crew members by name. The lead is weak. Daniels really only becomes the lead by default because she endured some personal tragedy in the beginning and that someone has to be the new Ripley. However, she's not really given any of the qualities that Ripley had. If you go back to "Alien", it's very easy to describe the traits in Ripley that made her the ultimate survivor. Do the Plinkett test on describing Ripley vs Daniels and it becomes pretty clear.

And even though I praised the visuals, I wish Ridley would have dialed back the CGI when it came to the Aliens and the attacks. I guess maybe it's not all his fault though, I don't think "modern" audiences resonate with the "less is more" maxim of keeping things frightening.

As far as that one deleted scene you mentioned with David at the Piano, do you remember the added dialogue? I had trouble identifying it.

 

[Jeff Cooper]

As far as that one deleted scene you mentioned with David at the Piano, do you remember the added dialogue? I had trouble identifying it.

It's the bit where he describes what goes on with the Gods and the Mortals in 'The Entrance of the Gods into Valhalla'. That section is cut from the film. Everything else in the scene is the same.

 

[Johnny Angell]

Watched this on blu-ray and appreciated it a lot more than when I saw it in the theater. Maybe knowing what to expect helped it out a lot more. I went in to the theater hoping for a direct continuation of Prometheus, which I greatly enjoyed.

For those interested in the mythology, there are 2 extras on the blu-ray that are very nice. The first is the extended opening sequence with David and Weyland. There is only one bit of extended dialog but boy is it a doozie. As David sits at the piano, he explains the piece he is playing. It goes a very long way to explain the actions of the Engineers in Prometheus, as well as David's decision to wipe them out when arriving at their planet. This is less than a minute of added dialogue, and I have no idea why they decided to cut it out.

The second piece is called 'Advent' and is in the 'Section 42 - Planet 6' or whatever named feature in the extras menu. This goes a loooong way to fill in the gaps between Covenant and the original Alien and explains the Company's interest in getting the alien in the original film. David also refers to Daniels with a very specific term that I won't spoil here but will make you go 'Oh, shit'. Or really piss you off, depending on your feelings of how they are handling the story. I suspect they may have created this, in case further films do not ever get made.

At any rate, those two extras are not to be missed.

Just finished watching the extras you mentioned. My comments on the deleted scenes ignore the need to trim for time or pacing.
Prologue-Extended-My first thought is this was deleted because it was too on the nose. We really learn a lot about David's motivations in this extended scene. Wish it was in the movie.
Walter in Greenhouse-Interesting but ok to delete.
Oram and Daniels-Extended-This just provides further proof that Oram couldn't lead his way out of a wet paper bag, and we already got that. Ok to delete.
Walter visits Daniels-When David told Walter that he(Walter) loved Daniels it came out of left field. Leave this in and it wouldn't have been such a surprise. Should have been in the movie.
Daniels Bedroom Flashback-Anothr deleted scene that could have provided character background. Should have been in the move.
Jacob's Funeral-Extended-Another scene hinting that Walter cares for Daniels. Should have been in the movie.
Ledward's Fall-Ok to delete
Crossing the Plaza-Extended-Interesting but ok to delete.
Daniels Thanks Walter-Same category as "Walter visits Daniels". Wish it were in the movie.
Rosenthal Prayer-Ok to delete
Walter Reports Back-Walter reports to Oram and others about his meeting David. Wish it were in the movie.
Stairs to Eggroom-Extended-Ok to delete

These are of course my opinions on the deleted scenes. Ridley is free to ignore them.

There is other stuff on the disc, almost like short stories. There is one where it's made clear Walter did design the Alien. He's also in communication with earth about it. Possible explanation why the Company knew about the Alien.

I was hoping the "Last Dinner" scene would be on the disc but I haven't run across it yet.

Edit: I found the "Last Dinner". It definitely would have helped the movie. There easily could have been an extended version of the film on this release. The material is there.

 

[WillG]

Just finished watching the extras you mentioned. My comments on the deleted scenes ignore the need to trim for time or pacing.
Prologue-Extended-My first thought is this was deleted because it was too on the nose. We really learn a lot about David's motivations in this extended scene. Wish it was in the movie.
Walter in Greenhouse-Interesting but ok to delete.
Oram and Daniels-Extended-This just provides further proof that Oram couldn't lead his way out of a wet paper bag, and we already got that. Ok to delete.
Walter visits Daniels-When David told Walter that he(Walter) loved Daniels it came out of left field. Leave this in and it wouldn't have been such a surprise. Should have been in the movie.
Daniels Bedroom Flashback-Anothr deleted scene that could have provided character background. Should have been in the move.
Jacob's Funeral-Extended-Another scene hinting that Walter cares for Daniels. Should have been in the movie.
Ledward's Fall-Ok to delete
Crossing the Plaza-Extended-Interesting but ok to delete.
Daniels Thanks Walter-Same category as "Walter visits Daniels". Wish it were in the movie.
Rosenthal Prayer-Ok to delete
Walter Reports Back-Walter reports to Oram and others about his meeting David. Wish it were in the movie.
Stairs to Eggroom-Extended-Ok to delete

These are of course my opinions on the deleted scenes. Ridley is free to ignore them.

There is other stuff on the disc, almost like short stories. There is one where it's made clear Walter did design the Alien. He's also in communication with earth about it. Possible explanation why the Company knew about the Alien.

I was hoping the "Last Dinner" scene would be on the disc but I haven't run across it yet.

Last dinner scene is on the disc. Couple of notes on your observations:

"Oram and Daniels-Extended-This just provides further proof that Oram couldn't lead his way out of a wet paper bag, and we already got that. Ok to delete."

Agreed but for slightly different reasoning. It kind of makes Daniels look petty. Russell (Oram) Hammomd might not have had the best way of expressing thoughts, but he was abruptly thrust into a position of leadership and was at least trying to extend sympathies to Daniels to which she just callously rebukes him. (I have a soft spot here because I remember an analogous experience in my career a number of years ago where I was promoted to a line manager position and a few weeks later a round of layoffs affected a couple of people who were under me due to the promotion. I was kind of in that position where I didn't have much experience but still had to rally the troops and console those under me that were being let go.)

"Walter visits Daniels-When David told Walter that he(Walter) loved Daniels it came out of left field. Leave this in and it wouldn't have been such a surprise. Should have been in the movie."

I wouldn't have minded seeing this left in just for the fact that it kind of explains that what's his name who gets affected by the spores seems to think it's no big deal to just toss at least half a good joint (not that I indulge myself much anymore these days, but waste not, want not. Amirite?)

"Rosenthal Prayer-Ok to delete"

Prayer, ok to go, but the back burster in "stalking" mode, kind of creepy, wouldn't have minded that being kept in.

"Stairs to Eggroom-Extended-Ok to delete"

Yeah doesn't add much but it does address a question probably many an Ailen fan must have had at one point or another.

 

[Johnny Angell]

Last dinner scene is on the disc. Couple of notes on your observations:

"Oram and Daniels-Extended-This just provides further proof that Oram couldn't lead his way out of a wet paper bag, and we already got that. Ok to delete."

Agreed but for slightly different reasoning. It kind of makes Daniels look petty. Russell (Oram) Hammomd might not have had the best way of expressing thoughts, but he was abruptly thrust into a position of leadership and was at least trying to extend sympathies to Daniels to which she just callously rebukes him. (I have a soft spot here because I remember an analogous experience in my career a number of years ago where I was promoted to a line manager position and a few weeks later a round of layoffs affected a couple of people who were under me due to the promotion. I was kind of in that position where I didn't have much experience but still had to rally the troops and console those under me that were being let go.)

"Walter visits Daniels-When David told Walter that he(Walter) loved Daniels it came out of left field. Leave this in and it wouldn't have been such a surprise. Should have been in the movie."

I wouldn't have minded seeing this left in just for the fact that it kind of explains that what's his name who gets affected by the spores seems to think it's no big deal to just toss at least half a good joint (not that I indulge myself much anymore these days, but waste not, want not. Amirite?)

"Rosenthal Prayer-Ok to delete"

Prayer, ok to go, but the back burster in "stalking" mode, kind of creepy, wouldn't have minded that being kept in.

"Stairs to Eggroom-Extended-Ok to delete"

Yeah doesn't add much but it does address a question probably many an Ailen fan must have had at one point or another.

We'll need to agree to disagree on Daniels being petty in that scene. She has just been woken up from a deep sleep to an unspeakable tragedy and Oram is very clumsy in his handling of the situation.

Yes, you're right, don't waste good weed. Wish I had some. I agree that the alien in stalking mode was creepy, wouldn't have minded that part being in the movie.

There's a good extended edition of Covenant right on this disc, sure wish they had made one.

 

[WillG]

We'll need to agree to disagree on Daniels being petty in that scene. She has just been woken up from a deep sleep to an unspeakable tragedy and Oram is very clumsy in his handling of the situation.

Eh, she could have just said "Thanks" and left it at that. Again, the guy was trying, even though he wasn't tremendously graceful. I'm willing to bet that scene was cut because it made Daniels look like a bitch.

 

[Jeff Cooper]

Just an FYI Oram is played by Billy Crudup, not Russell Hammomd.

 

[WillG]

Just an FYI Oram is played by Billy Crudup, not Russell Hammomd.

Did someone not see "Almost Famous"?

 

[Jeff Cooper]

Did someone not see "Almost Famous"?

LOL, nope. I just saw you refer to him twice as Russell Hammomd. Had no idea who that was.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

LOL, nope. I just saw you refer to him twice as Russell Hammomd. Had no idea who that was.

You were not alone I had no idea who Russell Hammond was either.

 

[TonyD]

Referring to actors as their character from another movie. Please don't do that.

Anyway to answer Reggie about the characters being as dumb as Promethius.
The one huge thing is they all went out of the ship with NO space helmets on. None. At least in Pro they had them on and took them off.
Then the guy goes up to the odd looking fungi and taps on it and breaths in the cloudy air that came out of it.

That's the one example that comes to mind right away.

 

[Tino]

It was a breathable atmosphere. Why would they need helmets?

 

[TonyD]

Also a movie stupid thing was When the switch with David and Walter happened that annoyed the crap outta me.

Terrible story telling.
Watching the movie there is no reason to do that other than to try and surprise so it's pointless otherwise there would have been no switch so just show it.
The characters in the movie don't know so for me it would add more tension watching them follow his instructions.

 

[TonyD]

It was a breathable atmosphere. Why would they need helmets?

For the exact reason I mentioned.

 

[Tino]

Not a good reason imo

 

[Johnny Angell]

Also a movie stupid thing was When the switch with David and Walter happened that annoyed the crap outta me.

Terrible story telling.
Watching the movie there is no reason to do that other than to try and surprise so it's pointless otherwise there would have been no switch so just show it.
The characters in the movie don't know so for me it would add more tension watching them follow his instructions.

It seems clear to me that Ridley needs David to continue the story he wants to tell, and David needs to be Walter so he can get the survivors to take a long nap. I think the switch was necessary. Some might prefer the switch not to be hidden from the audience, I get that.

I hated the result of the switch. That pissed me off. It will be worse if he doesn't get to make another movie in the saga.

 

[Nelson Au]

It was clear that David intended to replace Walter with himself the minute David cut his hair to look like Walter. Interesting how they had Walter speaking with an American accent when David was speaking proper British English.

Perhaps the Covenant crew, being a colonization ship, didn't have landing party protocols to secure against contagion. At least they were better armed then the Nostromo.

I doubt Ridley knew, or thought of it, but it's interesting that Ash would allow Kane back in the ship. It made it easy for Ridley Scott to connect Ash to David so that any contact with the Alien would be a priority. And of course, a prime directive of Weyland Yutani corporation on LV-426.

 

[WillG]

Referring to actors as their character from another movie. Please don't do that.

I guess I shouldn’t have done that. It was kind of a subtle commentary on my part that very few of the characters in the movie were very distinguished (i.e. I replaced the name of the character with another quite memorable character that Crudup played). If McBride didn’t stand out much (and it would be hard for him not too) I likely would have referred to him as Kenny Powers.

It was clear that David intended to replace Walter with himself the minute David cut his hair to look like Walter.

Agreed. And not showing the outcome of the fight between them was another very obvious tell. I’m not even that good at predicting movie twists, but that one could be seen miles away. In the climax of the movie, I was looking to see if David had cut off the wrong hand or maybe momentarily slipped back into a British accent. That kind of thing. I did feel that it didn’t make sense that David seemingly got stumped by the Log Cabin reference. You’d think that he would have recognized it as a previous conversation Daniels had with Walter. Unless, he wanted her to know that he was David right before activating her freezer. But then why not just say “Oh by the way, I’m David” instead.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

Anyway to answer Reggie about the characters being as dumb as Promethius.
The one huge thing is they all went out of the ship with NO space helmets on. None. At least in Pro they had them on and took them off.
Then the guy goes up to the odd looking fungi and taps on it and breaths in the cloudy air that came out of it.

That's the one example that comes to mind right away.

When the guy ends up breathing the spores from the "black fungus" thing I do not believe he even notices he has disturbed it as he steps on it tromping through the forest to have a smoke...pretending to be going to take a leak or something. He does not walk up to it and randomly poke at it and inhale. So, I don't find that is too terrible but you are correct it is lazy writing...which these films seem to be all about at this point.

And yes, they leave their ship with no special suits or helmets BUT to expedite things it was stated earlier that they "scanned the planet" and found it an even more "perfect" planet for colonization than the one they were headed to. So, yes, again lazy writing but the idea was put out there that it was a "safe" environment for humans. So, this seems less "stupid" characters than it is just sloppy writing/storytelling to quickly get things going.

In Prometheus the environment outside their ship when it landed was not supposed to be friendly for humans according to their scan...so they had to wear suits. Otherwise those clowns would have tromped around with no helmets as well. Once they got inside the structure they were exploring they discovered that it had a breathable atmosphere so the idiot David poisoned frantically removed his helmet sensing it had this atmosphere because they were "invited" to be there. So, he screams like a little girl "Let's get this party started!" and rips his helmet off and encourages the rest of the morons to follow suit...and of course they do.

Yes, this is also bad writing but directly related to creating some of the stupidest characters ever put on screen. So, in Prometheus I think they gave us "dumb" characters whereas in Covenant they just took a lot of short cuts to get to where they were going that did not really make the characters appear "dumb."

I felt the characters in Covenant were more unprepared than stupid. In Prometheus they are just amazingly stupid and
it really was annoying.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

Also a movie stupid thing was When the switch with David and Walter happened that annoyed the crap outta me.

Terrible story telling.
Watching the movie there is no reason to do that other than to try and surprise so it's pointless otherwise there would have been no switch so just show it.
The characters in the movie don't know so for me it would add more tension watching them follow his instructions.

Yes, again that did not reflect stupidity of the characters but shows they were being sloppy with the story. Mostly I think the idea being to make that portion of the film move more quickly.

It seems to me that Ridley has somehow lost the plot when it comes to creating suspense as he did a wonderful job of this in Alien and has seems to have no clue how to do it in these last couple of "prequels."

The newer films seem all about explaining everything to the audience and really this is killing these films.