Abandoning the Money System? (1 Viewer)

[DeathStar1]

Is it feesably possible to get rid of money alltogether, or in our current state of development, would this be a bad idea?
I was reading an article linked to by the Digital Bits on Copy Protection and the Entertainment industry. This statement I came across is really, really sad. >>So, how much does it cost to get your bill through the Senate? Looks to me like it’ll come in right around US$1 million. >>
These Politicians could care less about the bill, all they care about is the money. I know not all elected officials are crooked, but it sure seems that way at times. Too bad we can't work out another system besides money to use, maby then things won't be as corrupt...
Or is it too muc of a pipe dream?

 

[Anthony Moore]

it is a dream, and a good one.

Will it ever happen? Probably not.

Ive had this crazy idea before. I say a group of people start thier own community, and live off each other. You want nice things? Well, do your part in the community and you can have them. Dont do your part, which is ok, and dont get anything. I just think that w/o money we'd get to see more of the beauty of life, and the outdoors, and we wont want or need all the material things, so it probably wont even be an issue. I think w/o cash, we'd live more peaceful lives, get to know one another, and care more for each other.

We CAN live w/o money, but the problem is, the people who make the rules are the one's that have it all, who are definately NOT gonna give up their power and useless material things.

 

[Julie K]

Money is a way to put a value on things. You may know how many turnips equal a fish when engaging in a trade, but what about a haunch of venison? How many fish or turnips is that worth?

Money simplifies those trades. And basically, that's still what we're doing. If you wish to live without money, you are just substituting something else in its place. It may be someone (who?) deciding that "X hours of work weeding the garden" = "Nice thing.", but someone is still valuing trade and work. It may not be the NYSE, but someone or some group will be doing the equivalent.

Getting rid of the monetary system will never get rid of the human behavoirs that many seem to despair of. How does one divide resources? Call it money, cocoa beans, precious metals, beaver pelts, or a great leader deciding who is most worthy - there will always be rules for valuation of work and resources. And it will always be taken advantage of as long as we are human. But on the whole it works.

(Man, it was such a drag taking 100 tunas into Best Buy when I got my TV and the worst thing was that no one wanted tunas! Everyone wanted chickens and I didn't have any chickens. What about my tunas?!?)

useless material things.

Complaining about material things seems, uh, odd, in a place where we're all obsessed about little shiny discs...

 

[Danny R]

Julie has it right. Money is just an advanced form of barter.

The only way we will ever be rid of it is to implement a totalitarian regeme simular to communism, where everyone is forced to be given the exact same food, etc.

Its interesting to note that in an episode of Star Trek TNG they once boasted that their society doesn't have "money", because energy is pretty much free, food and anything else you want comes from replicators.

However even this vision still does have money, as we've seen bars of gold pressed latinum, and other objects that by their rarity have great value.

Money will always exist as long as resources are limited.

 

[Garrett Lundy]

The only way to be rid of "money" is to be rid of commerse. You can do this yourself right now, but very few people want to live like hermits in the Canadian Yukon

 

[Brian Perry]

I think money is here to stay, but I would like to see an end to the penny.

 

[Anthony Moore]

Money will always exist as long as resources are limited.

Good point, but i think we could definately use our knowledge to better use the resources we do have (we definately could implement an oil-less society)

 

[Kirk Gunn]

Seems the premise for eliminating a monetary system is the addage: "The love of money is the root of all evil".

However, a more accurate premise might be "The love of money, above all else, is the root of all evil".

Money gives us a measure of value. Just because you artificially eliminate dollar bills, sheckles or rupees, doesn't mean value cannot be measured by other means (which will then be coveted).

The concept of everyone living together in harmony was actually attempted by the Puritans (Pilgrims) when they first arrived in New England in the 1620's. They used a "Common Storeroom" concept where each could contribute according to their ability, but consume according to their need. It failed miserably and everyone almost starved... Why produce if your needs are satisfied automatically ?

The key may be to combat the deceit and physical force that enters into human relations. If you don't force your will on anyone else, or lie about anything, all of us may actually be able to play together in this big sandbox called Planet Earth.

Sorry for the soundbites, but there are scores of tomes on this subject.... Unfortunately such discussion usually flows into governmental politics.

 

[Julie K]

In the grand scheme of things, HT is useless.

In the grand scheme of things, we are all useless.

But that doesn't stop me from enjoying my life (and little shiny discs) in the meanwhile.

Utopia has never existed and never shall, money or no.

 

[Anthony Moore]

In the grand scheme of things, we are all useless.

i disagree. I think we are very important. Important to each other. But I dont think we need expensive things to bring out the best in us.

Of course the idea of getting rid of money is just plain impossible. But if we would have started that way, maybe things would be better, people would live overall happier lives.

Who knows?!

 

[MickeS]

Of course the idea of getting rid of money is just plain impossible. But if we would have started that way, maybe things would be better, people would live overall happier lives.

We DID start that way. Humans were around before money, you know.
"Everybody needs money! That's why they call it money!"
/Mike

 

[Anthony Moore]

. But if we would have started that way, maybe things would be better, people would live overall happier lives.

let me re-phrase...

if we would have STAYED that way

 

[Julie K]

But if we would have started that way, maybe things would be better, people would live overall happier lives.

I doubt it. There is still the problem of limited resources. If we didn't barter (with money, tuna fish, whatever) for these resources, we'd be doing what all other life on this planet does for them:

Fight over them.

I'll take money any day.

 

[Julie K]

if we would have STAYED that way

We were never in a condition without some sort of trade or barter system. All societies, from ours to existing hunter/gatherer societies value things (elk meat, tuna fish, DVDs, etc.) and have ways of simplifying trade of those things (money, beads, knives...).

 

[Anthony Moore]

Fight over them.

maybe not. thats the point. I think money has a lot to do with the world's (America specifically) problems.

 

[MickeS]

Well, that's nature for you. If we didn't have money, we'd be a lot worse off (just look at the communist states).

/Mike

 

[Anthony Moore]

ok, how about this:

I think no matter where you settle, you can live off the land (all vegies), and I dont think there really is a need to barter as much as we think. If communities stayed where they were, smoked God's gift of the green herb, we'd all be pretty happy.

But now i'm drifting of course. Of course there would be problems with a money-less society, but I think no matter what path we chose, there would be problems. So I guess we live with the system we chose.

 

[Julie K]

maybe not. thats the point.

Yeah, but all schemes other that "fight" or "trade" assume a totally non-realistic view of human nature.

Money is not bad. It's only how some people use it, and those people would be the same if money existed or not. Utopia is impossible.

 

[Julie K]

I think no matter where you settle, you can live off the land (all vegies),

Try to live in Alaska on all veggies and you will soon die unless you trade with your neighbors to the south for the veggies that aren't growing in the winter.
And some of us would far rather live on those delicious four-footed critters running around.
And then there are even some of us who don't like certain green herbs and find happiness elsewhere.
The point is that people are different. That's why simplistic models of happy community living are doomed to failure when applied to the real world.
People require trade if we want to remain civil. Money helps facilitate trade. There is nothing inherently wrong with that.

 

[Anthony Moore]

hey Neil..where you at man? Im tryin to back you up here.