A Few Words About A few words about...™ Wonder Woman -- in 4k UHD Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Mike Frezon]

It's a shame any of this even needed to be brought up and get in the way of the discussion of the Wonder Woman disc.

It's easy.

As Martin notes, fact is fact. It's when members start discussing their opinions and casting judgments on political issues or on the politics of those people who might be involved in a production that our line is crossed.

So let's just move on to the film and the disc and leave the rest of it behind. Thanks.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Joseph P. Kennedy owned RKO for a time. And there's certainly plenty of entertainment people in politics, and vice-versa: before running the MPAA, Jack Valenti worked for LBJ.

...and that guy from the Bonzo movies became President.

 

[Jonathan Perregaux]

I'd say the picture quality of WW is pretty spectacular for something filmed around 1918. Whoever was cranking the cameras got a little sloppy and couldn't maintain a steady frame rate a few times though. Nowadays that would never happen.

 

[PaulDA]

I think in this case, having seen the extended version, that the 3 hour version was what the film was intended to be from the start. Snyder has had extended versions for almost all of his films, and I would bet almost anything that his contract was something like "You have final cut on the theatrical version as long as it's 2 1/2 hours or less, and you can also put out a version at whatever length you prefer on the disc." Unlike most other extended versions, the longer BvS was included with the regular BD on release date - they didn't do any double dipping, and I think they announced that would be the case before the movie opened. I am 99% sure that the R-rated, 3 hour version of the movie was announced as coming on disc before the PG-13, 2 1/2 hour version even debuted theatrically.

Now, I think there's nothing in the longer version that needs to be R -- there's slightly more blood, I think, but I honestly didn't see anything that stood out as being significantly worse than what was in the theatrical version. I think Warner felt the need to keep the movie at a 2 1/2 hour length so that they could get more showings in. In hindsight, they should have just released the 3 hour version.

The 2 1/2 hour version is just logically inconsistent within itself. Characters make decisions and take actions (or decline to take actions), and as shown onscreen, it just doesn't make sense. In the longer version, more context is added to just about everything, and the actions of the characters onscreen are now internally consistent with how these characters are portrayed in this series. If you don't love Cavill as Superman or Affleck as Batman, the longer version won't change your mind about that, but if your issue was the story not making sense, the longer version is a million times better.

Here's one of my favorite examples of what was wrong with the shorter version with what was right in the longer version:
-In the shorter version, Superman attends the Congressional hearing, and is there when the bomb is detonated in the wheelchair by the "Wally" character that had been Bruce Wayne's employee, and was now being manipulated by Lex Luther. As shown onscreen, this makes no sense. There's no "hiding" a bomb from Superman. Superman can see through everything, all the time. Superman can hear everything everywhere, all the time. This is clearly established in Man Of Steel (nevermind decades of comics and other film and TV adaptations). Therefore, this entire sequence, and everything that follows - Superman becoming disillusioned and temporarily running away, etc., make no sense, because it is simply not possible that Superman would be oblivious to the presence of that bomb. He would have heard it ticking when the wheelchair guy was brought into the room. He would have seen it in the chair when he looked over at the guy. It's simply not possible that he doesn't see it, and it's a bizarre sequence to watch as an audience member. Since it's not possible for Superman not to have seen or heard the bomb, that leaves us to conclude that he either didn't care, was indifferent, or was distracted to the point of being incompetently dangerous. Neither of those options is desirable, and probably not credible either. Superman can be hard to write for because of his powers that make these situations impossible, but that's the character.

-In the longer version, a scene is added after the explosion. Lois Lane contacts a source in the FBI or police, who reveals the forensics from the scene of the event. It turns out that the wheelchair was lined with lead, which is the one thing that Superman can't see through. This changes the entire sequence completely. With this knowledge, and more importantly, with Lois receiving this knowledge and therefore, Superman receiving this knowledge, we learn that someone is specifically targeting Superman (Lex) and that Superman is aware of it. He realizes how he was made helpless in that situation, and is filled with despair because his notion of being all powerful has been shattered. It's more distressing for him because he realizes that he can be tricked and that his senses can be deceived. And, it's a credible scenario for the scene.


There are countless examples like that from the shorter version to the longer version. Almost every single action that doesn't make sense in the shorter version or seems out of character actually makes sense when seen in the longer film.

Excellent explanation of how the extended cut A) works better and B) was clearly the cut Snyder wanted to release.

Man of Steel - 10/10
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice UE - 9/10
Suicide Squad - 5/10
Wonder Woman - 9/10


Man of Steel is right up my alley, and a lot about what I love about it is what pisses other people off - specifically, the ending. I love seeing the landscapes and people among that landscape become a victim of the circumstances, because one of my major pet peeves is when a movie has to "protect me" by telling me that everyone/thing in this huge set piece is gonna be okay. I'm looking at you, BvS and Avengers. Superbeings tussle, innocents get harmed. There's truth in that that I respect.

Batman v Superman has lower lows which bug me, but I find it an endlessly fascinating film. In some ways the way it strives for much, much higher points than most films in the genre ever attempt is what brings me back again and again. It's handled imperfectly and I dislike some very specific moments, but the positives I have with the film far, far outweigh it's negatives.

Suicide Squad, on the other hand, makes me upset whenever I think about it. I think it nailed the casting for the most part, but the story the characters are places in is so poorly conceived and then handled. I have no interest in ever seeing it again. However, put some of these characters in a better movie and I'm there. That Ayer isn't writing the one film he's still associated with for the DCEU going forward (Gotham City Sirens) is a plus in my book.

Wonder Woman is generally great, and is solid across the board. It's the most even throughout of all the films. Wherein I love MoS in how it ratchets up the tension and stakes at the end, I totally get where someone wouldn't be in to that. Wonder Woman doesn't make such an attempt and keeps things "normal" in its stakes per the genre. Wherein BvS really tries to high-wire walk some heavier and less traditional concepts for a comic book film (to mixed results), Wonder Woman keeps its ideals and themes firmly into the hero's journey staples. Wherein Suicide Squad tries to mask a weak screenplay with a snazzy post-modern presentation (and fails with both, IMO), Wonder Woman trusts its workmanlike screenplay and well defined characters with sensible and assured direction by Jenkins. In the end, Wonder Woman is great and solid. But of the three films of the DCEU so far that I like it's easily the least interesting for me because it is so traditional.

I'm a bit more forgiving of Suicide Squad, but otherwise, pretty much exactly how I feel about these films. Especially Man of Steel.

 

[RJ992]

Excellent explanation of how the extended cut A) works better and B) was clearly the cut Snyder wanted to release.



I'm a bit more forgiving of Suicide Squad, but otherwise, pretty much exactly how I feel about these films. Especially Man of Steel.

Snyder's original cut was over 3 hrs. Warners agreed to a 3-hr cut so it was edited down to that length. But then WB reneged and he was forced to cut it even further. (That's why the extended-cut was announced immediately for video.)

David Ayers was treated even worse, so critiques of SS can't be laid at his feet. We've never seen his version, which reportedly is far superior.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

David Ayers was treated even worse, so critiques of SS can't be laid at his feet. We've never seen his version, which reportedly is far superior.

It's a shame that the BD for SS includes two cuts and neither is his.

 

[RJ992]

It's a shame that the BD for SS includes two cuts and neither is his.

I know! And it seems WB is doing it again with Justice League, substituting the down and gritty version for a lighter, Wonder Woman-centric release. *sigh*

 

[Keith Cobby]

I watched the blu-ray of WW last evening with my wife who enjoyed it much more than me. Very well made but a half hour too long for me and very formulaic. These superhero films look very alike in terms of structure. However it was a million times better than the other superhero film I have seen this week - the dreadful Deadpool.