4ES Discontinued (1 Viewer)

[Angelo.M]

At the prices I'm seeing, my guess is the stock won't last long for certain retailers/e-tailers.

Greg: I hope it's not true too!

 

[Seth_L]

I don't know why everyone is bashing on digital amps. Especially considering no one here has heard them.

Amplifiers are going digital. Face it. That's a fact of life. LP got replaced by the CD. Sure there are people who whine and complain that CDs don't sound as good as vinyl, but that view is in the minority. Digital amps are going to take the market by storm. Digital amps are supposed to lack both even and odd order distortion that plague transistor based amps.

High end digital amps have been review by some of the hifi magazines and they all say they sound better than far more expensive conventional amps. The same thing should apply to the low end. The digital amps in a $1k receiver might be inferior to a $10k analog amp, but they should be a lot better than the analog amps found in last years $1k receivers.

Seth

 

[Mark Hedges]

I think the main issue is that a digital amp works in the digital domain (if I understand things properly). So any analog signal would have to undergo an additional A/D conversion, which is undesirable.

Mark

 

[Seth_L]

I think the main issue is that a digital amp works in the digital domain (if I understand things properly). So any analog signal would have to undergo an additional A/D conversion, which is undesirable.

The only analog signal my DA5ES sees is my SACD and when I watch a cable channel without digital audio (rare). Soon SACD will be digitally connected to the amp.

HDTV has digital audio, all the digital channels on cable have digital audio, all of DSS has digital audio, CDs are digital, Audio from the PC is digital. SACD/DVD-A are digital, soon FM and AM will be digital. DVDs have digital audio. Almost all sources are digital.

The complaint is a bit off anyhow. Currently the DA4ES converts all analog sources to digital and back to analog. Only the 5.1 and 7.1 channel inputs aren't converted to digital and back. So, the loss by converting everything to digital should only improve the general situation, not worsen it because you're bypassing the conversion back to analog at the end. Once you can digitally connect the DVD-A and SACD it will have a better signal chain for all source than current receivers.

Seth

 

[Greg Schwabacher]

I don't know why everyone is bashing on digital amps. Especially considering no one here has heard them.

I didn't really think anyone in this thread was bashing digital amps. I think it's more that digital amplification is a new technology and at this point it's uncertain (I think I said "questionable" earlier) what benefits that technology may bring. I think that what this thread was getting at is that conventional amplification isn't going to be offered any longer in Sony's higher-end receivers, so if you like that type of sound, and don't want to take chances with digital amps, you'd better get one of the current receivers while they're still available.

Oh yeah, we also hope the entire ES line will continue to be available in black.

 

[Mark Hedges]

Currently the DA4ES converts all analog sources to digital and back to analog.

You mean there is no 2-channel analog direct mode? I find that suprising. My bottom-of-the-line Sony Reciever has a 2 channel stereo mode which bypasses all DSP - I can't believe the 4ES doesn't have anything similar.

Mark

 

[Seth_L]

Mark,

You can put it in 2 channel mode. I have no idea if it bypasses all DSP. Judging from the way the unit behaves I would guess not. 2 channel mode works for digital sources as well as analog ones.

Seth

 

[Greg Schwabacher]

Mark,
There's an Analog Direct mode on the 'DA4ES that works for all sources provided you have an analog connection. If you don't, you won't hear anything. The two channel mode that Seth referred to is different; that mode will downmix 5.1 mixes to two channel, among other things.

 

[Mark Hedges]

It looks like these things are really starting to dry up. I got mine from Onecall 2 weeks ago and now it isn't even listed on their website! The only ES model they have left is the 2ES.

Better start hunting if you want one!

Mark

 

[Guy Martin]

Yup. It's definitely gone. I had ordered one through the Sony employee discount program back in April (being a minor functionary of Sony Pictures does have some benefits). Got a very good deal too, in fact I wouldn't have been able to afford the 4ES otherwise. Unfortunately today they sent along a note saying that there were no more left and suggested I order the 2000ES, 3000ES or 5000ES. Sigh. Time to look at stuff more in my range like Denon or Onkyo.

Man, I really wanted that 4ES!
- Guy

 

[Victor Chan]

I wouldn't discount the technology that Sony will put into its digital amps until I can hear them in person. True, the H/K and Panasonic digital amps have not been given very good reviews vs their solid state counterparts. But sony has been experimenting their technology in their lower HTIB Dream Systems for a few years now and their most recent iteration in the AVD ES line (combination digital amp receiver and SACD/DVD/CD player) supposedly sound very good.

DVD etc. magazine reviewed the AVD-C70ES and the reviewer said that while it wasn't quite as good as the high-ened separates that he was using in his reference system, the Sony did sound very good and didn't have a problem powering his speakers (which if I remember correctly, were hard to drive B&W Nautilus series speakers). One would think, based off of price differential alone, that the quality of the digital amps and the technology that went into the new ES line of receivers will be far superior to what they put into these combo units. So we may yet be presently surprised with what the new Sony S-Master digital amped receivers can do.

 

[Seth_L]

Supposedly Sony is using Tri-Path modules which has a dubious reputation. Still I'd recommend listening to it before getting all worked up over it.

 

[DarrylM]

I was under the impression that:

1. The biggest advantage to digital switching amps is that they generate less heat and run at cooler temperatures. Though a company like Sony would most likely use this as an excuse to use smaller heatsinks and such.

2. Digital switching amps do not work as well at higher frequencies (the higher the frequency, the faster they must switch). Consequently, digital switching amps have been more common with subwoofer amplifiers. Though, I have also heard that they have may have poorer bass response, as well.

3. The digital aspect of digital switching amps has nothing to do with the digital format of the source media. That is, there is no inherent advantage to using a digital amplifier for digital media; there are still intermediary steps involved.

 

[Mark Hedges]

The digital aspect of digital switching amps has nothing to do with the digital format of the source media. That is, there is no inherent advantage to using a digital amplifier for digital media; there are still intermediary steps involved.

I believe that is true except for DSD. DSD and switching amps work along very similar principles. As I understand it, you can practically feed a digital amp a DSD signal straight from SACD with very little additional processing.

Of course only the most expensive Sony SACD player has a digital linkup so most people won't be able to take advantage of this.

Mark

 

[Tommy Rodgers]

Does anyone have a link to the review of the Sony AVD-C70ES from DVD Etc. magazine referred to above? Or any link to any review of this unit? Or even personal experience? I am looking to buy a second system and space is a huge consideration, so if this thing sounds good, I may be a guinea pig for the new digital amp technology...

Tommy

 

[Guy Martin]

Well I bit the bullet and ordered the 1000ES from the employee program. They said I should have it in late July/Early August. I decided that I didn't need the home-automation and dual-zone features of the 2000ES (I live in a studio apartment) nor did I need 120 watts per channel. And it looks like the 1000ES uses analog ampd, although I am not sure whether it is the same ones as the old 4ES (which I understand had audibly better amps than either the 1ES or 2ES).

I'll let you all know my initial impressions when it arrives later this month!

- Guy

 

[RobM]

Well I bit the bullet and ordered the 1000ES from the employee program. They said I should have it in late July/Early August.

Guy, is that the normal wait time when your order something through the employee program? I'd be chomping at the bit the whole time I was waiting for it to arrive

 

[Angelo.M]

...the old 4ES (which I understand had audibly better amps than either the 1ES or 2ES).

I can't tell any difference between the 'audible amps' of the 2 and 4ES.

 

[Guy Martin]

RobM -

Afraid so, but the fact that I'll be getting it for half off retail balances out the frustration and waiting

Angelo-
I have to admit I did not notice much difference between a 2ES and a 4ES myself, but others claim it is quite substantial. The other reason I went for the 4ES was the tweakability, which I hope the 1000ES has.

- Guy

 

[Scott Ailstock]

OADE BROTHERS STILL HAS STOCK ON THE 4ES AND HAS THEM AT A GREAT PRICE. I JUST ORDERED ONE TODAY.