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Steve Jobs must be rolling over in his grave


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#21 of 307 OFFLINE   ManW_TheUncool

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Posted October 02 2012 - 06:11 AM

One thing.  IF this problem is indeed an extreme variation/example of the usual (less drastic) sensor blooming, purple CA/fringing issue found in many digitals, then the problem might not be limited to spot light sources w/in the frame.  Scenes/shots w/ strong backlighting (and other extreme contrast situations like reflected light, etc.) might trigger the problem as well, if so.


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#22 of 307 OFFLINE   Sam Posten

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Posted October 02 2012 - 06:50 AM

I've taken over 300 shots so far and have yet to see it. Like all digital cameras you can exploit their known weaknesses. If you think my $5k D4 is without flaw you are crazy or misinformed. As Lightroom shows this is something that CAN be minimized with software if needed. Such software can easily be moved to the OS down the road too. Makes for great press tho! And Hanson I dunno how many times I have to say it: ALL design is compromise.

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#23 of 307 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted October 02 2012 - 07:01 AM

Compromise... I have a 4'x6' portrait of the family I took 2 summers ago... I've heard... "Wow, that must be one hell of a digital camera..." I just reply..."yep"... My previous house. I took a picture of Niagara Falls with one of my large format. Made the entire wall the picture. People thought it was wall paper. Well, technically it was...

#24 of 307 OFFLINE   Hanson

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Posted October 02 2012 - 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by Sam Posten 

I've taken over 300 shots so far and have yet to see it. Like all digital cameras you can exploit their known weaknesses. If you think my $5k D4 is without flaw you are crazy or misinformed. As Lightroom shows this is something that CAN be minimized with software if needed. Such software can easily be moved to the OS down the road too.

Makes for great press tho!


I don't know Sam, maybe your use case and the iPhone are just destined to work effortlessly:


Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Posten    I've been using the new Apple maps for 2 months now, it has replaced my use of TomTom. It's that good. Tied into siri it is a game changer for hands free use.

Yes, Maps was a game changer alright Posted Image. But I'm glad every element of the iPhone works so well for you. Just lucky, I guess.



#25 of 307 OFFLINE   Hanson

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Posted October 02 2012 - 08:03 AM




http://www.madmagazi...ew-yorker-cover


Sure, it's not the beacon of satire that it used to be (and it wasn't much of one back in the day), but it's one of those signs you've really arrived when you're parodied in MAD Magazine.


The next stop would be SNL, I guess.



#26 of 307 OFFLINE   schan1269

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Posted October 02 2012 - 08:09 AM

At least the world isn't flat... Maybe it is guidance brought to you with the aid of Nina, Pinta and Santa Maria....

#27 of 307 OFFLINE   Sam Posten

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Posted October 02 2012 - 09:24 AM

Yes, Maps was a game changer alright :P . But I'm glad every element of the iPhone works so well for you. Just lucky, I guess.

Yep. Like I said complaining about nits makes great press tho. I've been using the maps app for 3 months now, no complaints here. Although there is a bit of purple fringing here: Posted Image Oh wait, that's just the flowers. Shot one handed. At dusk. Avoiding bees.

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#28 of 307 OFFLINE   Hanson

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Posted October 02 2012 - 12:46 PM

So something that doesn't affect you but affects other users is a nit.


By that logic, since my phone is running ICS, the Motorola users stuck on Gingerbread is a nit.

Gotcha.



#29 of 307 OFFLINE   Sam Posten

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Posted October 02 2012 - 03:00 PM

Find a single image where the camera is not directly looking into a lightbsourcecand we will talk. Even then you might wanna know that this phenomenon happens to multi-k lenses, some of which are otherwise best in class. And it is solvable in s/w...

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#30 of 307 OFFLINE   Hanson

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Posted October 02 2012 - 03:33 PM

















#31 of 307 OFFLINE   Sam Posten

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Posted October 03 2012 - 05:07 AM

Again, directly into lights and extreme specular highlights. Not a new phenomenon...

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#32 of 307 OFFLINE   RobertR

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Posted October 03 2012 - 06:01 AM

But the question is, does the same problem show up on other phone cameras? If it doesn't, then it's a flaw, no matter how much you try to minimize it.

#33 of 307 OFFLINE   Hanson

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Posted October 03 2012 - 06:04 AM

None of those pictures are shot "directly into lights". Unless you have a different idea of what "direct" means.


Here's the thing -- you may be careful to compose pictures while avoiding specular highlights. Maybe if you get purple hazing, you could fix it with post-processing software. But this is supposed to be grandma's phone. Does she understand lighting conditions and Photoshop?

This issue is like the maps issue -- maybe you won't notice it the first time. Maybe not the second. But the moment you're an hour late for an appointment because of erroneous Map information is like the moment you have what might have been the greatest picture of your kids except there's a purple haze covering their faces. Then it's a problem.


BTW, Ihnatko uncovered another issue with the iPhone 5 camera:


Quote:

Alas, I did find one serious problem with the iPhone 5 camera, and I do indeed consider it a big deal. It has to do with that miraculous dynamic low-light shooting mode: the iPhone 5 often uses it when it’s not necessary.

I remind you that I was shooting the exact same scenes with the all of these phones. In many of the test scenes, the iPhone 5 photo was the only one that came out blurry. I took two or three shots...none of the three was clear. The iPhone 4S, the Samsung, even the iPhone 4 produced clean, sharp photos.

iPhone 5 offers new innovations in phone photos, but a flaw




#34 of 307 OFFLINE   Sam Posten

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Posted October 03 2012 - 06:47 AM

/shrug...

The primary way that lens manufacturers prevent lens flare is to coat the glass elements in an anti-reflective coating. The iPhone 5's lens elements are coated, but we don't know if the coatings are identical to those used in the iPhone 4S's lens. Maybe the sapphire glass has to be coated differently - we don't know. And we won't know, unless Apple releases a more in-depth statement about the technology. Really, our advice is not to worry. Just do what you should do anyway, and avoid putting bright lights near the edge of the frame when shooting.

http://www.dpreview....hone-5-camera/3

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#35 of 307 OFFLINE   Hanson

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Posted October 03 2012 - 07:31 AM

That's seems to be the expected reaction from a photography site read by professional and aspiring photographers. But not everyone who uses the iPhone 5 camera is a photographer. They just want a picture. Without purple haze. Or being told, in not so many words, "you're holding it wrong".

http://blogs.scienti...n-apple-thinks/


Quote:
Smartphone manufacturers are eating a large slice of the traditional camera company pizza. To lock down this progress, phone manufacturers cannot afford to go backwards on their optics or to treat imaging problems flippantly. People buy phones based on the performance the cameras, and this stumble may be a bigger one than Apple realizes.

You know who really hit the nail on the head on this issue?


Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertR 

But the question is, does the same problem show up on other phone cameras? If it doesn't, then it's a flaw, no matter how much you try to minimize it.
  And it's true - this wasn't an issue with the 4 or 4S and isn't a problem on the GS3. Why should Apple all of a sudden get a pass on their newest flagship phone? Or to put it another way, if the camera on the GS3 had purple haze issues, it would have completely destroyed its credibility. If the GS3 had this issue, millions of customers would have avoided it like the plague. But you want to hand wave every problem with the iPhone 5 as some sort of hysteria. The iPhone 5 is supposed to be better than the 4S. But it's a worse mapping experience (assuming the 4S hasn't "upgraded" to iOS6) and in bright light situations, a much worse camera than the 4S or even the 4. 


#36 of 307 OFFLINE   Sam Posten

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Posted October 03 2012 - 07:54 AM

Not in my experience. That's all I can tell you. And I'm up over 500 photos in all kinds of light, including stadiums.... https://twitter.com/...4/photo/1/large You can see a bare hint of purple in that, I'd not give a second thought as it was hanging on my wall...

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#37 of 307 OFFLINE   RobertR

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Posted October 03 2012 - 08:09 AM

Not in my experience. That's all I can tell you. And I'm up over 500 photos in all kinds of light, including stadiums.... https://twitter.com/...4/photo/1/large

Which, of course, says nothing about the problem existing for others. This is an objective problem, not a subjective one.

#38 of 307 OFFLINE   Sam Posten

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Posted October 03 2012 - 08:11 AM

Sure. I'm not claiming it's perfect and I dont doubt that you can make it happen if you go looking for it. I am doubting that it will be an issue for any average user which is Hanson's main point. You can call it a flaw if you like, and damn the whole phone because of it. That's your prerogative. For my own uses I feel that the low light capabilities more than make up for this tradeoff as does not having the lens make a noticeable bump on the back as it did on my 4. Most people will hear the fear mongering and make their own choices but if they actually use it are unlikely to experience it on any regular basis, and when they do it can be fixed in a few clicks of an image editing software package if they care that much about it.

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#39 of 307 OFFLINE   Hanson

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Posted October 03 2012 - 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by Sam Posten 

Sure. I'm not claiming it's perfect and I dont doubt that you can make it happen if you go looking for it. I am doubting that it will be an issue for any average user which is Hanson's main point.

First off, you were positive that Maps were wonderful. They are not. Even Apple had to admit they were flawed.


Google the phrase, "purple iphone photo" and there are hundreds of articles and forum posts. It was so widespread that Apple had to address the issue publicly. Are you saying that they had enough complaints to issue a public response but somehow it's not affecting average users? And BTW, the forum complaints pre-dated the articles. The tail did not wag the dog here, which I'm sure is your next rhetorical fallback position.


Also, you constantly post articles sourced from anti-virus companies about malware explosions in Android that affect almost no one, but this you don't think affects the average user?


Maybe your Reality Distortion Field is filtering out the purple.



#40 of 307 OFFLINE   Sam Posten

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Posted October 03 2012 - 01:33 PM

It's possible. Again all I can say is I use my devices every day and neither issue has affected me or anyone I know who is not a pundit. I have agreed that Apple should have been more up front about te areas where their maps fall short but never once have I personally had anything but a first rate experience with them over 6 months of use. The plural of anecdotes is not data, but the plural of scary stories is not journalism either. Look deeper to those that are really investigating both apps and you will find strong support their. You might not trust do review and I sure don't trust consumer reports but both have strongly supported Apple on these two issues...

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