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Receiver help


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8 replies to this topic

#1 of 9 tiekwando

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Posted September 27 2012 - 01:28 PM

Alright so I am making the rounds and trying to figure out a decent receiver. I am thinking of getting (with the intent that if I don't like it I can return everything) a pair of BIC DV62sis, a BIC DV62CLRS center and a BIC F-12 sub (3.1 system) and now I need to find a reciever to power these things. All I have is HDMI 1.4 compatible gear so I don't need up conversion, I also don't have an Iphone/Ipad so airplay is useless, and I'm ok with used/refurbished. I also would like to be able to set up 2 sitting positions if possible. Anyways my current pick is a denon avr-1612 for $200 shipped from accessories4less. For some reason I am worried about Onkyo, even though I know they have great prices for the specs. I also thought that a yamaha rx-471 for $270 new was also in consideration from amazon. As far as budget I would like to stick to less than $400, and only if there is a good reason. Thanks!

#2 of 9 schan1269

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Posted September 28 2012 - 12:52 AM

Why are you worried about Onkyo? Reality check about them... They are a victim of their own success. The last 5 years they've had the number 1 and 2 selling AVR on the market. In the top 10, they've never had less than 4. Back during the year the X06 models were "new"(the '08-'09 model year...if my math is right) they held 6 of the top 10 spots. They have (best guess) 40% of the AVR market to themselves. Add in Integra and also "add-in" Pre-Pro... Onkyo/Integra has darm near 50% of the AVR/Pre-Pro market. When you sell the most...you have the most failures. Denon, back when networking was still "new", released models where every "firmware update" bricked the AVR. Their 2nd model year, the ethernet port wasn't grounded properly and any fluctuations in your internet would cause the AVR to die. Point being, every AVR maker has issues. You just hear about Onkyo's more often. IF you want a "bulletproof" AVR... Buy a Yamaha RX-V 6XX or higher...or any RX-A. But I'm guessing they are over your price range...(The RX-A line build quality is unquestioned as the best). There are 3 "problems" with Yamaha...which one of the "problems" is why they are so good(above a certain price point)... 1. They, for the longest time, didn't adopt DPL IIz. They relied on Presence too long(yes, they created the whole "height channel" way before everybody else...problem is Presence never got the press that DPL IIz did...and they waited "too long" to adopt it). 2. Their price (I alluded to that issue in posts weeks ago for other people). In "reality", they should cost less than Onkyo...but they stick to "their guns"... 3. Market share. This goes with number 2. But, once you purchase a 6XX or an RX-A. You get a receiver that is BUILT. Onkyo has "three tiers" of manufacture. Yamaha has two. Yamaha's "2nd tier" starts with the RX-V6XX. A full (original price, not street price) $300 less than Onkyo's third tier. Yamaha 2nd tier is equal to Onkyo 3rd tier.

#3 of 9 Jason Charlton

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Posted September 28 2012 - 01:58 AM

Originally Posted by tiekwando 

I also would like to be able to set up 2 sitting positions if possible.


What, exactly, do you mean by this?


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#4 of 9 tiekwando

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Posted September 28 2012 - 03:08 AM

What, exactly, do you mean by this?

I have two couches that are both often in use and I know (or at least think) that some auto-calibration systems can reference multiple points so that the sound in both spots is decent, though I imagine not as good as just having it in one spot (please correct me if I am wrong). That was one reason I wanted to up to a 1612 because it had Audyssey MultEQ. Also I found a Yamaha Aventage RX-A700 for $350 new, but its an ebay store so no warranty, as with a RX-V667 for $290,would these be worth upgrading to?

#5 of 9 Jason Charlton

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Posted September 28 2012 - 03:29 AM

Originally Posted by tiekwando 

I have two couches that are both often in use and I know (or at least think) that some auto-calibration systems can reference multiple points so that the sound in both spots is decent, though I imagine not as good as just having it in one spot (please correct me if I am wrong). That was one reason I wanted to up to a 1612 because it had Audyssey MultEQ.


Well, better calibration systems can "widen" the sweet spot - to a point.  This doesn't mean, necessarily, that you can have two different sofas that are 10 feet apart, oriented differently to the display and have everything sound decent and uniform at both locations.  You are correct in that the larger area you try to "calibrate to", the more compromises you're going to take in the overall soundfield compared to a more focused setup.


I fear you are describing a room configuration that exceeds what should reasonably be expected of a mult-location calibration.


In my experience, setups that allow you to position the microphone at multiple locations really intend for you to choose, say, the middle and both ends of a single large sofa or sectional.


Regardless, if your room configuration is on the more "challenging" side, the better version of Audyssey may be a worthwhile reason to step up to the higher end receiver.


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#6 of 9 schan1269

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Posted September 28 2012 - 03:35 AM

The A700/V667 both have single point YPAO. But, to get multi-point YPAO you have to get the A800, which is $200 more(everywhere I've looked). From a "build" standpoint(as in how it feels out of the box) the A700 is hands down more robust than the 1612. But the 1612 to A700 comparo isn't fair either. Also, the A700 is 2 model years old. There was the 710 last year, on the 720 now. $450 is a fair price for a NIB A700(counting a 2year from "somebody"). The big difference will be in 2-3 more years when it comes time to sell this one for "the newest"... Nobody is going to care about a 1612. You'll get lots of calls and real interest about the A700. Case in point. Look up used values(this will take some research) on Yamaha RX-V3XX, 4XX and 5XX(going back to X63 models). Then look at resale of the 663/763. The 663 has better resale than the 573...even though the 663 is 3 model years older than a 573. Basically, used AV equipment "can" have a resale value if you do your research on features people care about (the main advantage to the 667/700 is the inclusion of 6 channel pre-out)

#7 of 9 tiekwando

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Posted September 28 2012 - 04:06 AM

Well, better calibration systems can "widen" the sweet spot - to a point.  This doesn't mean, necessarily, that you can have two different sofas that are 10 feet apart, oriented differently to the display and have everything sound decent and uniform at both locations.  You are correct in that the larger area you try to "calibrate to", the more compromises you're going to take in the overall soundfield compared to a more focused setup. I fear you are describing a room configuration that exceeds what should reasonably be expected of a mult-location calibration. In my experience, setups that allow you to position the microphone at multiple locations really intend for you to choose, say, the middle and both ends of a single large sofa or sectional. Regardless, if your room configuration is on the more "challenging" side, the better version of Audyssey may be a worthwhile reason to step up to the higher end receiver.

Think of it as a long sectional and you wouldn't be far wrong its two couches aligned in an L. It tends to get one person in the middle of one couch (optimum position) and one person at the end of the other: | | TV | {} - - - where the {} is a small end table and I'm thinking possible sub location.

The A700/V667 both have single point YPAO. But, to get multi-point YPAO you have to get the A800, which is $200 more(everywhere I've looked). From a "build" standpoint(as in how it feels out of the box) the A700 is hands down more robust than the 1612. But the 1612 to A700 comparo isn't fair either. Also, the A700 is 2 model years old. There was the 710 last year, on the 720 now. $450 is a fair price for a NIB A700(counting a 2year from "somebody"). The big difference will be in 2-3 more years when it comes time to sell this one for "the newest"... Nobody is going to care about a 1612. You'll get lots of calls and real interest about the A700. Case in point. Look up used values(this will take some research) on Yamaha RX-V3XX, 4XX and 5XX(going back to X63 models). Then look at resale of the 663/763. The 663 has better resale than the 573...even though the 663 is 3 model years older than a 573. Basically, used AV equipment "can" have a resale value if you do your research on features people care about (the main advantage to the 667/700 is the inclusion of 6 channel pre-out)

I don't really care about "age" necessarily as the A700 seems to do everything that I would want, barring single point YPAO, and how do you know about the 6 channel pre-out, i have a hard time finding it on spec sheets? Thanks - edit* nevermind found it on Yamaha's website, although I'm still a bit confused do people ever refer to pre-outs as something else in spec sheets or is that detail just missing sometimes?

#8 of 9 schan1269

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Posted September 28 2012 - 04:33 AM

Pre-out exist at a "price point", and that "price point" varies by manufacturer... Some receivers include stereo pre-out(the 1612 is a prime example. Offers a pre-out so you can do DPL IIz with an outboard amp...whoop di do, why not make it assignable as Zone 2...or Zone B...then it would be useful)... Others, once they are high enough "up the food chain", offer 6/8 channel pre-out... Yamaha starts at the V6XX/A7XX Onkyo starts at the S/NR7XX(or, in today's brethren...7X7) It has disappeared from Denon till $1000. Pioneer dropped it, but it exists on Elite models. Pre-out allows you to "one day" decide..."hey I want more power" or "ahh, I bought 4 ohm speakers, my receiver is getting 'too hot'" and you can hook up external amps.

#9 of 9 tiekwando

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Posted September 28 2012 - 05:48 AM

Alright I bit on the RX-A700, I liked the idea of pre-outs and the price seemed pretty good for what I think I am getting. I also got a pair of BIC Monitors and the Sub, with the intention of listening to the monitors w/ and w/out the sub, to see if I like them and then either relegating them to surrounds or getting a center channel for them (shipping is the same so might as well try them out). Thanks for the help, especially you schan, I obviously took a lot of your advice.




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