Jump to content



Sign up for a free account!

Signing up for an account is fast and free. As a member you can join in the conversation, enter contests to win things like this Logitech Harmony Ultimate Remote and you won't get the popup ads that guests get. Click here to create your free account.

Photo
3D Blu-ray Reviews

Cars 2: THE HTF 3D ADDICT REVIEW



  • You cannot start a new topic
  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#1 of 36 Ronald Epstein

Ronald Epstein

    Studio Mogul

  • 38,853 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 03 1997

Posted October 19 2011 - 05:01 AM


Posted Image

What can I say?  I love 3D!  From the moment I began watching 3D content in my home I quickly discovered that I needed more content.  I suspect that those of you just purchasing your first 3D hardware will acquire the same ferocious appetite.  That's why I became the HTF 3D ADDICT.  I personally love images that pop off the screen and come inches away from your face without becoming overly gimmicky.  However, I certainly appreciate the nature documentaries that offer beautiful depth and separation.  These are not necessarily reviews of the film themselves.  I am not going to concentrate on story or supplements -- you can find the 2D reviews elsewhere on this forum.  My job is to let you know exactly what kind of 3D experience to expect from the titles that are being released.   As I will be receiving a handful of new product from the studios expect to see more title coverage.





Posted Image

CARS 2

 

Studio: Walt Disney

Product Release: November 1, 2011

Ratio: 2.39:1

Audio: 7.1 DTS-HD Master Audio. French and Spanish 5.1 Dolby Digital EX

Running Time: 106 Minutes

Rating: G



Posted Image

ON A SCALE 0-5

Overall 3D Presentation Rating: 2

3D Separation: 3

3D In Yo' Face Factor: 0



The idea of Pixar making an animated film that humanizes automobiles may

have first seemed an odd choice when the original Cars film premiered in 2006,

but audiences seemed to have immediately fallen in love with its family-friendly

testimonial to heartland America, Nascar and the towns and tourist attractions

that used to line Route 66.


Unfortunately, Cars 2 retains none of the charm of its predecessor.  In fact,

it's an utter, complete mess of a film that somehow gets turned into a loud,

complex shoot-em-up spy thriller that completely ignores all the elements of

what makes a great Pixar movie including intriguing story, character development

and relationships that invoke some sort of emotional investment by its audience.


Posted Image


This time around, the film centers upon two sub stories.  The first involves

Lightning McQueen (Owen Wilson) who agrees to participate in the championship

World Grand Prix race against a Italian Formula One Francesco Bernoulli

(John Torturro),  The second involves the good-hearted Tow Mater (Larry the

Cable Guy) getting cluelessly involved in a spy ring headed up by British agent

Finn McMissile (Michael Caine) and love interest Holley Shiftwell (Emily Mortimer)

who face off against the villainous monocle-wearing weapons designer Professor

Zündapp (Thomas Kretschmann).


Posted Image


One would think that filling the screen with colorful racing cars and fast-edited

action scenes would hold the interest of Pixar's target audience.  However,

somehow the story gets totally bogged down with over-the-top violence and jokes

that mostly aim more towards adult audiences than kids (though there is the inclusion

of un-warranted toilet humor).  In essence, Pixar has taken the focus away from its

lovable characters and put it towards a complex plot that adds to much weight

to the film's overall enjoyment.


Disney has always been noted for its first-rate transfers and this one is no

exception.  The pristine transfer allows for the film's beautifully animated cars

to show off their shiny clear-coats. The pure digital transfer shows an unparalleled

level of sharpness that brings out deep rich rich textures within the animation.

Colors are stunning here, particularly in the Tokyo race sequences where brilliant

neons dazzle the eyes.  There are absolutely no flaws to be found here.


Posted Image


My biggest complaint outside of the film's plot, is its 3D presentation.  Like

the story, it seems to be mostly ineffective and all over the map offering

varying degrees of depth from scene to scene.  While the process does manage

to add realism and make the film somewhat more immersive, one could easily

argue that the 3D adds no real value to this film at all.  Most of the scenes seem

quite flat, offering a minimal amount of depth.  The level of depth seems to open

up in town shots of Radiator Springs, Paris, and along the winding roads of the

Italian countryside.  In fact, it isn't until 3/4 of the way through the film during

a scene inside the London clock tower that one gets the sense that the filmmakers

were making good use of the format with their placement of various objects.  This

leads to one of the biggest arguments I have been making against 3D as of late....

why don't filmmakers make better use of the format?    Theaters and Home

Entertainment companies are charging a premium to watch a film like Cars 2

where there is absolutely no payoff for the audience.  With all the props at

the filmmakers disposal, why couldn't some WOW factor be interjected into

the film?  How much more enjoyable would a film like this have been if objects

flew out towards the audience.  Isn't this what makes 3D what it is?   Instead,

Cars 2 keeps all its action within the confines of the screen.  There is nothing

of WOW value here except perhaps a few fenders attempting to poke out

beyond its boundaries.  As I sat and watched, I couldn't help but be aggravated

over the fact that people paid good money to see a film like this in 3D and

probably walked away extremely dissatisfied.


Posted Image


The film has a rather punchy 7.1 DTS-HD track, downconverted to

5.1 on my system.  Viewers will find themselves immersed in 360-degree

audio that places them in the middle of the action.  A great example

of this is the race sequences where revving engines dash across

the channels with a gratifying amount underlying bass while the surrounds

come alive with the sounds of roaring crowds.   Dialogue remains stiffly

in the center channel as the surrounds give a wealth of support for

the film's effect noises which are well placed throughout with a nice

sense of directionality.  Michael Giacchino, who has written scores

for films like Star Trek (2009), Ratatouille, Up and Super 8 provides

a soundtrack that is not only mostly forgettable, but easily gets lost

amidst all the noise of the film.


Cars 2 arrives as a 5-disc combo set comprised of 3D Blu-ray,

2D Blu-ray, Blu-Ray Bonus, DVD and DIgital Copy packaged in

lenticular packaging.


The 3D disc includes the short Air Mater in 3D, which is a

sort of light-natured story about Tow Mater becoming part of

the Falcon Hawk squad while giving us an introduction to the

upcoming Planes series.  The 3D is adequate here, giving us

nice depth, but nothing eye-popping.


The 2D Blu-ray and DVD disc also offers Air Mater as well

as the theatrical short, Hawaiian Vacation.  A Director's commentary

is offered along with the film feature.  The Blu-ray bonus disc

offers interactive access to deleted scenes, documentaries,

animation and more from different locations in the movie.



CONCLUSION


Posted Image


Cars 2 completely runs out of gas, failing to connect to its audience

on any level.  Furthermore, it's one of those films that could have

possibly been saved by being a satisfying 3D experience, but alas,

even fails at that.


Only true fans of the series will appreciate the film.  I would expect

kids will quickly become bored by the film's complex storyline.  This

film certainly should not be considered for a blind purchase based on

expectations from the original film.   Though at the time of this review,

there was only a $7 difference in price between the 2D and 3D offerings,

I am uncertain whether the extra expense offers a better viewing experience.



Images are for illustrative purpose only not representative of the picture quality of this disc. 


Equipment


LG 60PX950 THX Certified 3D display

Oppo BDP-93 3D Blu-ray Player

Denon 3311CI Receiver

Atlantic Technology H-PAS AT-1 fronts, 4400 center; 4200 rear speakers

SV Sound Subwoofer


Ronald J Epstein
Home Theater Forum co-owner

 

gallery_269895_23_10043.jpg Click Here for the latest/hottest Blu-ray Preorders gallery_269895_23_1316.jpg Click Here for our complete Blu-ray review archive

gallery_269895_23_773.jpg Click Here for our complete 3D Blu-ray review archive gallery_269895_23_992.jpgClick Here for our complete DVD review archive

gallery_269895_23_7246.jpg Click Here for Blu-Ray Preorder Release Schedule gallery_269895_23_3120.jpg Click Here for forum posting rules and regulations


#2 of 36 Adam Gregorich

Adam Gregorich

    Executive Producer

  • 14,600 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 20 1999
  • LocationThe Other Washington

Posted October 19 2011 - 05:55 AM

Thanks for the review Ron.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein 

Though at the time of this review, there was only a $7 difference in price between the 2D and 3D offerings, I am uncertain whether the extra expense offers a better viewing experience.



One important note, the 5 disc 3D version, gives you not only the film on 3D but an additional Blu-ray disc full of 2D bonus features that isn't included in the 2D Blu-ray set.  I think that disc is worth the $7 even if you aren't interested in the 3D disc.  I am assuming there will probably be a coupon as well, cutting that down to probably a $2 difference.


I disagree with your overall thoughts on the film.  Maybe because I was watching it with my kids I had a different overall reaction?  It is different from the first film, the opening scene makes it clear that this its going to be.

The violence didn't really bother me.  There is a lot of missile, rocket and machine gun fire, some menacing welding torches, a car that breaks apart when falling from an oil derrick into the ocean.  There is a scene where the American CIA agent is being destroyed via a EMP blast where you see the lead up, the beam being fired, the initial struggle, but the camera cuts away to a monitor, where you can just barely see the fireball in the reflection.  This prompted an "Is he dead?" question from my daughter.


To me this was a story about being true to yourself and your friends. Most of the humor was derived from Mater being a fish out of water as he was taken out of his comfort zone in Radiator Springs. While my soon-to-be six year olds didn't get all the plot points they got enough to easily follow along (bad guys trying to do bad guy things and good guys trying to stop them). More importantly the message of appreciating people for who they are came through. They appreciated the toilet humor not only because it was literal toilet humor, but because it was also fish out of water bathroom humor. Note to parents who haven't seen it: the scene I am thinking of (and I believe Ron is referring to) is Mater needing to use the restroom and finding himself in a stall with a high tech bidet, with no controls in English.


We saw this in 3D on a recent Disney cruise.  I can't remember anything specific about the 3D, so I guess that means it didn't bother me or stand out in any way.  I'll have to check it on on 3D Blu-ray and see if I feel any differently.



#3 of 36 TravisR

TravisR

    Studio Mogul

  • 21,431 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 15 2004
  • LocationThe basement of the FBI building

Posted October 19 2011 - 06:25 AM

I disagree with your overall thoughts on the film.  Maybe because I was watching it with my kids I had a different overall reaction?  It is different from the first film, the opening scene makes it clear that this its going to be.

I don't have/want kids and I enjoyed it well enough (and I'm sure kids love an action-y movie with talking cars as the stars). It's nothing amazing but I'm surprised at the beating that it took from critics. And making a sequel that is very different from the first one was a great idea.

#4 of 36 Jeff F.

Jeff F.

    Stunt Coordinator

  • 162 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 31 1999

Posted October 19 2011 - 07:48 AM

My six year old son loved this film. Definite purchase.

#5 of 36 Jeff Cooper

Jeff Cooper

    Screenwriter

  • 1,235 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 06 2000

Posted October 19 2011 - 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein 


This leads to one of the biggest arguments I have been making against 3D as of late....

why don't filmmakers make better use of the format?    Theaters and Home

Entertainment companies are charging a premium to watch a film like Cars 2

where there is absolutely no payoff for the audience.  With all the props at

the filmmakers disposal, why couldn't some WOW factor be interjected into

the film?  How much more enjoyable would a film like this have been if objects

flew out towards the audience.  Isn't this what makes 3D what it is?


I think that you may be confusing actual designed for and shot in 3D movies, versus 2D movies that were never intended to be or filmed in 3D, and simply converted as an attempt to cash grab in on the supposed '3D craze'.


-Jeff Cooper

"Curse you inspector Dim! You are too clever for us naughty people."

#6 of 36 Ronald Epstein

Ronald Epstein

    Studio Mogul

  • 38,853 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 03 1997

Posted October 19 2011 - 08:03 AM

Jeff,


I try and be careful to research exactly which films were

intended for 3D and which were simpy upconverted for cash grab.


Cars 2 was definately shot with 3D in mind according to the

films director, John Lasseter.


Ronald J Epstein
Home Theater Forum co-owner

 

gallery_269895_23_10043.jpg Click Here for the latest/hottest Blu-ray Preorders gallery_269895_23_1316.jpg Click Here for our complete Blu-ray review archive

gallery_269895_23_773.jpg Click Here for our complete 3D Blu-ray review archive gallery_269895_23_992.jpgClick Here for our complete DVD review archive

gallery_269895_23_7246.jpg Click Here for Blu-Ray Preorder Release Schedule gallery_269895_23_3120.jpg Click Here for forum posting rules and regulations


#7 of 36 Adam Gregorich

Adam Gregorich

    Executive Producer

  • 14,600 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 20 1999
  • LocationThe Other Washington

Posted October 19 2011 - 08:04 AM



Originally Posted by Jeff Cooper 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein 


This leads to one of the biggest arguments I have been making against 3D as of late....

why don't filmmakers make better use of the format?    Theaters and Home

Entertainment companies are charging a premium to watch a film like Cars 2

where there is absolutely no payoff for the audience.  With all the props at

the filmmakers disposal, why couldn't some WOW factor be interjected into

the film?  How much more enjoyable would a film like this have been if objects

flew out towards the audience.  Isn't this what makes 3D what it is?


I think that you may be confusing actual designed for and shot in 3D movies, versus 2D movies that were never intended to be or filmed in 3D, and simply converted as an attempt to cash grab in on the supposed '3D craze'.

I think in general film makers are being too conservative with 3D, especially with films that are shot in 3D.  I think that they are so afraid of being too gimicky, that they have swung 180 degrees to using no gimicks which are part of the fun of 3D.




#8 of 36 Andrew Pierce

Andrew Pierce

    Stunt Coordinator

  • 186 posts
  • Join Date: May 22 2002
  • Real Name:Andrew Pierce
  • LocationMinneapolis

Posted October 19 2011 - 08:13 AM

I saw both Up and TS3 in theaters in 3D -- I got the impression that Pixar was using the 3D as a way of adding presence and physicality to the scene rather than doing gimmicky stunts where they throw things at the camera every 2 minutes. Sounds like that's what they're doing here too. One man's lack of wow factor is another man's mature sense of restraint. Of course, I didn't feel the 3D really added anything to either of those movies, but I think that's true of all 3D movies with the possible exception of Avatar. Also, I should add the incredible storytelling is the most amazing gimmick in the Pixar playbook, and Cars 2 may have accidentally left that one out too.

#9 of 36 Ronald Epstein

Ronald Epstein

    Studio Mogul

  • 38,853 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 03 1997

Posted October 19 2011 - 08:30 AM

Andrew,


You make good points about restrained and frequent

use of 3D in films.


I would make the argument that it depends on the type

of film you are talking about.

I think Cars 2 fits my argument rather well.


My boss has kids and he tells me that whenever there

is a choice between 2D and 3D, they want to see the

3D version.  Of course, that means the parents are paying

a premium on the tickets.


What is that premium offering kids who go to see Cars 2?


Nobody wants things thrown at them every 2 seconds --

and I realize that's an exagerration --  however, one would

think that at least the filmmakers would use the tools at

their disposal to do some really neat gimmickry that adds

to the story rather than detracts from it.


Everybody is jumping onboard to make 3D movies, but

hardly anyone is really doing anything cool with it.  In fact,

after all the 3D films I have watched over the past year, I am

starting to get bored with it only because without it being

properly exploited, it's offering only minimal enhancement

over the 2D version.


Funny, I have seen some really bad films actually made

better with 3D (take Yogi Bear for instance).  Reason being,

the filmmakers were able to intertwine some cool 3D gimmickry

into the story  -- and it is those gimmicks you remember when

you leave the theater.

As for Cars 2, that's a film I might have appreciated more

if the filmmakers would have made it a little more fun by

integrating some cool effect work into the story.

This is one of those issues that not everyone is going to

agree on.  I have already stated that I have rather aggressive

tastes when it comes to 3D.  Others will simply enjoy the

level of depth it provides.



Ronald J Epstein
Home Theater Forum co-owner

 

gallery_269895_23_10043.jpg Click Here for the latest/hottest Blu-ray Preorders gallery_269895_23_1316.jpg Click Here for our complete Blu-ray review archive

gallery_269895_23_773.jpg Click Here for our complete 3D Blu-ray review archive gallery_269895_23_992.jpgClick Here for our complete DVD review archive

gallery_269895_23_7246.jpg Click Here for Blu-Ray Preorder Release Schedule gallery_269895_23_3120.jpg Click Here for forum posting rules and regulations


#10 of 36 Brisby

Brisby

    Second Unit

  • 288 posts
  • Join Date: Apr 11 2010

Posted October 19 2011 - 02:52 PM

The first Pixar movie I've legitimately disliked. The original film was my previous pick for the weakest Pixar movie, but at least that film had some nice morals about slowing down and enjoying life, all of which are rudely shoved aside for frenetic, disturbingly violent action sequences and non-stop Mater schtick. Seriously, this was direct-to-video cheapquel stuff done with an "A" budget, and coming from Pixar, that's like a slap in the face.

#11 of 36 AaronMK

AaronMK

    Supporting Actor

  • 768 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 30 1999
  • Real Name:Aaron Karp
  • LocationOrlando, FL

Posted October 19 2011 - 07:52 PM

When 5.1 came out, there were a lot of "gimmick" tracks before sound designers calmed down and practiced "restraint." Does that mean 5.1 now only offers minimal enhancement over matrix-encoded surround? I'd say there are a lot of 5.1 tracks don't call attention to themselves, yet are highly aggressive, immersive, and fully exploit the advantages over matrix-encoded surround. I'm not a fan of "gimmick" 3D on any level, but even I found the 3D in Cars 2 lacking. With Up and Toy Story 3, I really appreciated how, as Andrew described, it added a great sense of presence and physicality to the scenes. Cars 2 seemed to lack the sense of depth and space that 3D can add to the illusion.

#12 of 36 Ted Van Duyn

Ted Van Duyn

    Stunt Coordinator

  • 185 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 03 2003

Posted October 20 2011 - 02:37 AM

The way I see it, Cars 2 feels like nothing but a cash in. Look at all the titles they've made and all the potentials that either a sequel or prequel would have made. Cars was a movie that was not only the film that got the lowest ratings of any Pixar movie, but it had one thing that the other movies did not. A huge successful merchandise run. If you've been to any toy store, wall mart, or any place that sells Hot Wheels, you will know that from 2006 to today, Cars merchandise was always on the shelves. It outlasted the merchandise runs of The Incredibles, Ratatouille, Wall-E, and will most likely outlast Toy Story 3. And what better way to cash in on the potential merchandise than making the toys more merchandisable? Let's look at what Cars 2 did for itself. Set the movie in international areas = More variety of cars it can produce Have it be an action film = Toys come equipped with guns and rocket launchers Go look at the Cars merchandise and see for yourself. You've got cars with pop out guns, and other cars so international that there's a three-wheeled Reliant Robin. But the last, probably most insulting part about all of this is the moral of the story. Mater, who has been screwing things up throughout the entire movie, finally comes to an understanding that maybe he was being a jerk to Lightning and everyone else with his antics. Just when you think his character is actually going to develop and actually become likable, Lightning just flat out tells him to stay the way he is. o_o And if nobody likes it, that's their problem. O_O -_- If you're movie just flat out presses the "Cancel Character Development" button, than your movie is nothing.

#13 of 36 Adam Gregorich

Adam Gregorich

    Executive Producer

  • 14,600 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 20 1999
  • LocationThe Other Washington

Posted October 24 2011 - 06:58 AM

I happened to have a $55k Sim2 3D projector on hand for a little while this morning, unfortunately its leaving as quickly as it came.  We used Cars 2 3D as a demo, and watched about 25 minutes of it.  I didn't see any WOW 3D use, but the depth of field in 3D was incredible.



#14 of 36 Aaron Silverman

Aaron Silverman

    Lead Actor

  • 9,380 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 22 1999
  • Real Name:Aaron Silverman
  • LocationFlorida

Posted October 24 2011 - 07:15 AM

I'm with Adam on this one. . .Toy Story 2 it wasn't, but it was a good solid action comedy that worked as an homage to Hitchcock and James Bond films. IMO the torture-murder scene (which dragged out the torture part more than Adam implied) was a bit much, though. That by itself warranted a PG rating.

Note to parents who haven't seen it: the scene I am thinking of (and I believe Ron is referring to) is Mater needing to use the restroom and finding himself in a stall with a high tech bidet, with no controls in English.

That was also intended to reinforce the idea of Mater being unsophisticated -- in Japan, almost all toilets are like that. :) I don't like the fact that you have to get the 5-disc set in order to get the extras (even if it is only a few bucks more). I never had and likely will never have any interest in the 3D disc or digital copy.
"How wonderful it will be to have a leader unburdened by the twin horrors of knowledge and experience." -- Mr. Wick

#15 of 36 AaronMK

AaronMK

    Supporting Actor

  • 768 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 30 1999
  • Real Name:Aaron Karp
  • LocationOrlando, FL

Posted October 24 2011 - 11:31 AM

That was also intended to reinforce the idea of Mater being unsophisticated -- in Japan, almost all toilets are like that. :)

After seeing that scene, I was so glad I did not encounter any toilets there that spoke. Who knows what they could have been saying about how you were using (or misusing) all of the functions for everyone to hear? :(

#16 of 36 DavidEC

DavidEC

    Stunt Coordinator

  • 171 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 13 2001

Posted November 11 2011 - 05:38 PM

Cars 2 3D Playback Error I have titled this new Disney/Pixar issue "time warp". As the disc will play forward and then at random points jump back to a point that it had already played and then play forward by passing the point it had jumped backwards from, playing along forwards for a few minutes, then jumping backwards to a random pre-played point in the movie and then play forward again.... This is not a normal "SKIP" or "LAYER CHANGE" as they only effect forward playback, and are repeatable at the same time point / chapter on the disc... this error does not happen at the same point twice, after trying to play the disc over four days. I gave up trying to watch after 15/20 minutes so don't know if at some point later the disc would play correctly. Is anybody else in this forum having these troubles??:confused:?? I have a Samsung BD-D5500 with the latest firmware and have read that this model, along with other, Samsung players are having the same issue with this 3D disc in other forums (not to have my posting mixed up with others) but also have read a at least one software/computer player and one Panasonic machine have reported like playback errors. David

#17 of 36 Matt Hough

Matt Hough

    Executive Producer

  • 10,632 posts
  • Join Date: Apr 24 2006
  • LocationCharlotte, NC

Posted November 12 2011 - 12:12 AM

I reviewed the 3D disc on a Panasonic 310 player and experienced no problems at all. I also have a Samsung 6900 3D player, but have not tried it in that one. Maybe next week if I find myself with some time on my hands, I'll pop this back in and watch on the Samsung. I want to rewatch it anyway.



#18 of 36 Jonathan Perregaux

Jonathan Perregaux

    Supporting Actor

  • 618 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 10 1999
  • Real Name:Jonathan Perregaux

Posted January 18 2012 - 02:53 AM

I'm not sure how this movie got off the pitch board. The main characters were quite unlikable, nothing made sense (why would cars have a sushi bar?), and it was all action and all of it boring. When I saw the preview for "PLANES" I threw my hands up. As for the 3-D, several times while watching this "thing" I had to check my glasses because it felt like they weren't working. Oh, but they were. Barely.
My DVDs

#19 of 36 Ronald Epstein

Ronald Epstein

    Studio Mogul

  • 38,853 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 03 1997

Posted January 18 2012 - 05:33 AM

I'm rarely wrong with my assessments of the 3D  :)


It was pretty non-existent.




Ronald J Epstein
Home Theater Forum co-owner

 

gallery_269895_23_10043.jpg Click Here for the latest/hottest Blu-ray Preorders gallery_269895_23_1316.jpg Click Here for our complete Blu-ray review archive

gallery_269895_23_773.jpg Click Here for our complete 3D Blu-ray review archive gallery_269895_23_992.jpgClick Here for our complete DVD review archive

gallery_269895_23_7246.jpg Click Here for Blu-Ray Preorder Release Schedule gallery_269895_23_3120.jpg Click Here for forum posting rules and regulations


#20 of 36 Aaron Silverman

Aaron Silverman

    Lead Actor

  • 9,380 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 22 1999
  • Real Name:Aaron Silverman
  • LocationFlorida

Posted January 18 2012 - 07:40 AM

Why *wouldn't* cars have a sushi bar? :)
"How wonderful it will be to have a leader unburdened by the twin horrors of knowledge and experience." -- Mr. Wick





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: 3D Blu-ray Reviews

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


Forum Nav Content I Follow