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RAINTREE COUNTY on Blu?

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#501 of 556 OFFLINE   ahollis

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Posted July 21 2014 - 11:36 AM

Hi Oliver, what you write makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. I have a strong feeling that my DVR recording of Raintree from Saturday night is the best we're going to get for quite sometime. I strongly suspect that the film Ron Epstein is referring to in this post is Raintree County:


Of course someone will pipe up and it doesn't do any good to speculate on what film he's actually referring to since he isn't able to tell us, but Ron's response from the unnamed studio about the unnamed film sounds a lot like the what WAC has been telling fans on their Facebook page when they inquire about Raintree, with the exception of them having already made up their mind that the investment of funding a restoration would not pay off. So, as I've wondered before, at what point does WHV "hand off" Raintree to the Warner Archive Collection? It would be nice to have SOME sort of official release of this film. It's been in home video limbo far too long.


There one other title that keeps popping up on the forums and WAC's Facebook that they talk about heavy expenses in releasing it and that is THE WONDERFUL WORLD OF BROTHERS GRIMM. I thought of this title first, for Elizabeth Taylor and Monty Clift would make RAINTREE COUNTY a bigger seller. I hope its Grimm their referring to than RAINTREE for that gives up still hope for a release of RC.
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#502 of 556 OFFLINE   RolandL

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Posted July 21 2014 - 11:39 AM

"Lenses by Panavision" (looked like 2:35); no MGM Camera 65 title card.

Had overture, entr'acte (no exit music) and panned dialogue.

Makes you wish that TCM would hurry up and upgrade to true high-def.

 

I'm pretty sure the roadshow version shown on TCM in the past does not have the MGM Camera 65 title card. I thought this was strange as the source that was sent to them had it.  But if it did, the opening titles would not look as good.

 

I don't think they will ever upgrade to HD.

 

Hi Oliver, what you write makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. I have a strong feeling that my DVR recording of Raintree from Saturday night is the best we're going to get for quite sometime. I strongly suspect that the film Ron Epstein is referring to in this post is Raintree County:

 

 

Of course someone will pipe up and it doesn't do any good to speculate on what film he's actually referring to since he isn't able to tell us, but Ron's response from the unnamed studio about the unnamed film sounds a lot like the what WAC has been telling fans on their Facebook page when they inquire about Raintree, with the exception of them having already made up their mind that the investment of funding a restoration would not pay off. So, as I've wondered before, at what point does WHV "hand off" Raintree to the Warner Archive Collection? It would be nice to have SOME sort of official release of this film. It's been in home video limbo far too long.

 

Yes, it must be Raintree that Ron was referring to.


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#503 of 556 OFFLINE   Andrew Budgell

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Posted July 21 2014 - 11:50 AM

There one other title that keeps popping up on the forums and WAC's Facebook that they talk about heavy expenses in releasing it and that is THE WONDERFUL WORLD OF BROTHERS GRIMM. I thought of this title first, for Elizabeth Taylor and Monty Clift would make RAINTREE COUNTY a bigger seller. I hope its Grimm their referring to than RAINTREE for that gives up still hope for a release of RC.

 

I hope so too, Allen. (No offense, Wonderful Word of Brothers Grimm fans!  ;))


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#504 of 556 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted July 21 2014 - 12:29 PM

Of course someone will pipe up and it doesn't do any good to speculate on what film he's actually referring to since he isn't able to tell us, but Ron's response from the unnamed studio about the unnamed film sounds a lot like the what WAC has been telling fans on their Facebook page when they inquire about Raintree, with the exception of them having already made up their mind that the investment of funding a restoration would not pay off. So, as I've wondered before, at what point does WHV "hand off" Raintree to the Warner Archive Collection? It would be nice to have SOME sort of official release of this film. It's been in home video limbo far too long.


I also think that the title is most probably Raintree County. Ben-Hur was rumored to have had a Million Dollar budget and there is no reason to think that the cost for Raintree County will be less.

Imo Warner should do what preservation they have to do anyway to keep the film secure for the future and then do a raw scan of at least 4k - this will not cost that much and they can give the digital files away to a licensee who can arrange for a more cost effective to bring this to market on Blu-ray.

And then they can bring it to Warner Archive, it is too late now for a simple DVD version!
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#505 of 556 OFFLINE   Andrew Budgell

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Posted July 21 2014 - 01:58 PM

I also think that the title is most probably Raintree County. Ben-Hur was rumored to have had a Million Dollar budget and there is no reason to think that the cost for Raintree County will be less.

Imo Warner should do what preservation they have to do anyway to keep the film secure for the future and then do a raw scan of at least 4k - this will not cost that much and they can give the digital files away to a licensee who can arrange for a more cost effective to bring this to market on Blu-ray.

And then they can bring it to Warner Archive, it is too late now for a simple DVD version!

 

And I'd be thrilled if they did just what you propose! Does anyone have any idea what it would cost to bring it to Blu-ray that way, rather than a full fledged Ben-Hur type of restoration? I just fear that WB are such perfectionists (which under most circumstances is a great thing!) that they'll never go for this. I truly hope it's not an all or nothing type of situation.



#506 of 556 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted July 21 2014 - 05:01 PM

And I'd be thrilled if they did just what you propose! Does anyone have any idea what it would cost to bring it to Blu-ray that way, rather than a full fledged Ben-Hur type of restoration?


Just the scan of an IP and low cost further work may cost as little as 100000 depending on where it is done. As RAH said in another post: It all boils down to time spent doing the job. Now I am not saying that as little should be spent bringing Raintree County to Blu-ray but as Warner apparently sees very few commercial opportunities in it a move to lower cost methods seems to be the way to go.

 

I just fear that WB are such perfectionists (which under most circumstances is a great thing!) that they'll never go for this. I truly hope it's not an all or nothing type of situation.


Things change and with traditional and extremely costly restoration projects not being possible for every title I think that even Warner will change their way at some point. Of the higher profile large format titles Raintree County is only exceeded by One Eyed jacks when it comes to neglect on home video - for both titles the last thing officially released in the US was a widescreen LD some 20 years ago!

#507 of 556 OFFLINE   Robert Harris

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Posted July 21 2014 - 05:09 PM

Raintree County involves high costs, and heavy lifting.  The elements of the long version only survive in low resolution video.  The film is a huge cost vs. sales problem.  WB should at least be able to break even.

 

All 65mm anamorphic, six-track stereo, faded…  The list on the negative sides goes on.

 

Because one sees something on TCM, doesn't mean that elements survive.

 

RAH


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#508 of 556 OFFLINE   lionel59

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Posted July 21 2014 - 06:06 PM

Thanks very much for the concise information Robert.

(I am very glad to have the Road Show cut on DVD-R recorded from TCM. Who knows when they will play it again as they are now playing the General Release Version? I much prefer the original version,particularly for the way the landmark Johnny Green score is heard in the un-compromised manner that it should be . With all of this buzz on HTF and elsewhere, I feel sure RAINTREE will come out at some point from the best 16:9 master Warner can come up with. I just hope they give us the Road Show cut as an extra, even if only in LBX)



#509 of 556 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted July 21 2014 - 06:35 PM

Raintree County involves high costs, and heavy lifting.  The elements of the long version only survive in low resolution video.  The film is a huge cost vs. sales problem.  WB should at least be able to break even.
 
All 65mm anamorphic, six-track stereo, faded…  The list on the negative sides goes on.
 
Because one sees something on TCM, doesn't mean that elements survive.
 
RAH


But wouldn't Warner want to take steps towards preserving Raintree County anyway before the OCN has faded so much that we will have a situation similar to the one with the OCN of The Alamo?

I guess that again it is a matter of a huge number of movies needing attention with most of them requiring not nearly as much effort in order to preserve them for future generations.

#510 of 556 OFFLINE   RolandL

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Posted July 22 2014 - 11:01 AM

Raintree County involves high costs, and heavy lifting.  The elements of the long version only survive in low resolution video.  The film is a huge cost vs. sales problem.  WB should at least be able to break even.

 

All 65mm anamorphic, six-track stereo, faded…  The list on the negative sides goes on.

 

Because one sees something on TCM, doesn't mean that elements survive.

 

RAH

 

So the 35mm dye transfer that you mention in a post from 2003 is no longer available? Very sad.

 

Posted May 05 2003 - 04:16 AM

"Raintree County survives in the long version on 35mm dye transfer, as this was the format via which it was released."


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#511 of 556 OFFLINE   Jari K

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Posted July 22 2014 - 01:41 PM

So this is WB's "Alamo".
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#512 of 556 OFFLINE   atfree

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Posted July 22 2014 - 02:21 PM

So this is WB's "Alamo".

Pretty much....

Now you listen to me, I'm an advertising man, not a red herring. I've got a job, a secretary, a mother, two ex-wives and several bartenders that depend upon me, and I don't intend to disappoint them all by getting myself "slightly" killed.  Roger Thornhill (Cary Grant), Hitchcock's North By Northwest (1959)

 

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#513 of 556 OFFLINE   JoeDoakes

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Posted July 22 2014 - 03:38 PM

Raintree County involves high costs, and heavy lifting.  The elements of the long version only survive in low resolution video.  The film is a huge cost vs. sales problem.  WB should at least be able to break even.

 

All 65mm anamorphic, six-track stereo, faded…  The list on the negative sides goes on.

 

Because one sees something on TCM, doesn't mean that elements survive.

 

RAH

I didn't know it was that complex.  Well, that's my daily dose of gloom.  I think that I'll turn to something with more of a positive tilt, like news from the middle east.


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#514 of 556 OFFLINE   Dr Griffin

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Posted July 22 2014 - 03:51 PM

Better grab up those VHS roadshow versions!



#515 of 556 OFFLINE   ahollis

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Posted July 22 2014 - 07:23 PM

So this is WB's "Alamo".


Along with THE WONDERFUL WORLD OF THE BROTHERS GRIMM.
"Get a director and a writer and leave them alone. That`s how the best pictures get made" - William "Wild Bill" Wellman


#516 of 556 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted July 22 2014 - 08:40 PM

Pretty much....


Not quite I would guess as I have not heard about Warner rejecting outside funding, nor has the existing Roadshow print been rejuvenated to my knowledge.

I wonder if there is some effort being made to preserve the existing assets for future generations regardless of bringing the movie to home video?

If a wetgate archival IP of the general realease version was produced (like with for example Oklahoma!) then this could also be the starting point for a relatively low cost home video release as scanning such an element and bringing it to releasable 4k data is much less costly than scanning and piecing together all the surviving parts of a roadshow print in their various forms (35mm IB Tech and 65mm OCN).

With 4k data one could then produce the usual plethora of releases in different formats:

4k DCP for the special screenings and festivals
4k version for an upcoming 4k Disc format IF that ever comes
1080p version for Blu-ray
SD version for a decent DVD release
and the various versions for streaming, download and TV in 480i, 576i, 720p, 1080i, 1080p and now even 4k

I am just naming all of these to show the different venues where Warner could try to recoup their money. If we go from the assumption that at some point and with a proper assets protection program an archival IP will have to be created anyway then from there it is a much less costly undertaking to finally bring the movie to the many formats that are now available for distribution.

I also would say that with regard to cost it differs from the Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm that is an even more difficult movie to tackle - less popular and probably more costly to prepare than at least the general release version of Raintree County.

#517 of 556 OFFLINE   atfree

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Posted July 23 2014 - 03:15 AM

Not quite I would guess as I have not heard about Warner rejecting outside funding, nor has the existing Roadshow print been rejuvenated to my knowledge.

I wonder if there is some effort being made to preserve the existing assets for future generations regardless of bringing the movie to home video?

If a wetgate archival IP of the general realease version was produced (like with for example Oklahoma!) then this could also be the starting point for a relatively low cost home video release as scanning such an element and bringing it to releasable 4k data is much less costly than scanning and piecing together all the surviving parts of a roadshow print in their various forms (35mm IB Tech and 65mm OCN).

With 4k data one could then produce the usual plethora of releases in different formats:

4k DCP for the special screenings and festivals
4k version for an upcoming 4k Disc format IF that ever comes
1080p version for Blu-ray
SD version for a decent DVD release
and the various versions for streaming, download and TV in 480i, 576i, 720p, 1080i, 1080p and now even 4k

I am just naming all of these to show the different venues where Warner could try to recoup their money. If we go from the assumption that at some point and with a proper assets protection program an archival IP will have to be created anyway then from there it is a much less costly undertaking to finally bring the movie to the many formats that are now available for distribution.

I also would say that with regard to cost it differs from the Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm that is an even more difficult movie to tackle - less popular and probably more costly to prepare than at least the general release version of Raintree County.

In terms of its release history on home media, particularly the roadshow version, I would still say pretty much.....

Now you listen to me, I'm an advertising man, not a red herring. I've got a job, a secretary, a mother, two ex-wives and several bartenders that depend upon me, and I don't intend to disappoint them all by getting myself "slightly" killed.  Roger Thornhill (Cary Grant), Hitchcock's North By Northwest (1959)

 

My Blu-Ray Collection: http://www.blu-ray.c...on.php?u=153595

 

My modest setup: TV- Panny TC-P46ST30; HT- Panny SC-BTT370 Blu-ray Home Theater System; Satellite: Directv HR24 HD-DVR; Gaming: Sony PS3


#518 of 556 OFFLINE   Andrew Budgell

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Posted July 24 2014 - 08:44 AM

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A collector of Raintree County memorabilia just wrote on my Raintree Facebook page that he's been informed that the film is currently being restored and will be released on Blu-ray in 2015 via the Warner Archive!

 

Could it be true? Could we FINALLY be seeing this film on Blu-ray? If it is, three cheers for Warner Bros, you've made me and other Raintree fans very happy and 2015 can't come soon enough!


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#519 of 556 OFFLINE   Konstantinos

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Posted July 24 2014 - 08:54 AM

A collector of Raintree County memorabilia just wrote on my Raintree Facebook page that he's been informed that the film is currently being restored and will be released on Blu-ray in 2015 via the Warner Archive!

 

Could it be true? Could we FINALLY be seeing this film on Blu-ray? If it is, three cheers for Warner Bros, you've made me and other Raintree fans very happy and 2015 can't come soon enough!

This is too good to be true!!!!

But here's hoping...

 

Could he be more specific from where did he get this information?



#520 of 556 OFFLINE   OliverK

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Posted July 24 2014 - 09:00 AM

In terms of its release history on home media, particularly the roadshow version, I would still say pretty much.....


I find Raintree County fascinating as it holds quite a few distinctions:

- the only big roadshow epic to have been shot in 65mm but then not released in 70mm
- the only big movie shot in a new widescreen format that was not shown in the intended premium exhibition format of the process
- the only big 65mm epic from a major studio that wasn't even released on DVD

Regarding the Roadshow version The Alamo got its LD release and Raintree County did not - only the general release version is available on LD.

Looks like the most neglected of the bigger large format epics to me.
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