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#1 of 87 ELSock

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Posted January 09 2007 - 12:53 AM

Ok I'm kinda torn between two AV receivers.
I'm upgrading to HD in about a month, and i wanna make sure i'm doing my homework so as to get the biggest bang for my buck... and i want the new equipment to last at least a little while.
The two recievers i'm looking at are the Sony STR-DG800 and its big brother
the Sony STR-DG1000.
The 800 is like $400 and does as far as i've read almost the same as the dg1000 which is $800. now i'm just lookin mostly for which on is better or if for the same money i can another receiver thats even better, or one thats equally good for less money... keep in mind please that i'm lookin for hdmi which the 2 sony's have. also
if it has (the new) hdmi, and it says passthrough, will it covert the audio through the receiver or is just rerouting where the signal is goin?

thx for all your help.
soon to be in HD land,
~ELSock~

#2 of 87 John Brill

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Posted January 09 2007 - 01:10 AM

Passthrough means just that, the audio and video signal is simply passed through to your video monitor/TV, no processing is done by the receiver. This won't happen until the release of HDMI 1.3 compliant receivers anticipated later this year (summer/fall).

The only reason to even consider receivers with HDMI input/outputs at this time is if you have more HDMI sources than you have HDMI inputs into your TV. Otherwise, doing the direct HDMI connection from source (DVD Player) to TV is best and using optical/coaxial input into your receiver for sound.

If you still want HDMI into your receiver, I'd consider taking a look at the Pioneer VSX-1016 which can be had for $399 shipped from Amazon. Without HDMI, I'd look at the Yamaha HTR-5960/RX-V659 or the Denon AVR-1707/1907 before considering a Sony.

#3 of 87 Stephen Hopkins

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Posted January 09 2007 - 02:59 AM

There's more to HDMI than just video... even right now in the pre-HDMI 1.3 era. With next-generation disc formats (HD-DVD and BLURAY) you have the advantage of lossless compression audio (Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master HD) that can currently only be decoded in the player and be sent to the receiver as 5.1 or 7.1 LPCM over HDMI. Right now I wouldn't buy a receiver WITHOUT proper HDMI implementation including acceptance of LPCM audio over HDMI (especially since they can be had for as low as $330 in the form of the Onkyo SR604). With decoding in the player and LPCM over HDMI you can fully enjoy losless audio without any HDMI 1.3 equipment.

All that said, there's definitely alot better options than any non-ES Sony for under $800, and even for less than $400. The ones I can think of are:

Onkyo SR604 ($325, Accessories4less.com)
2 HDMI in / 1 Out
1080p Capable HDMI Switching
DD, DTS, and 5.1 LPCM Audio over HDMI

Marantz SR4001 ($399, Accessories4less.com)
2 HDMI in / 1 Out
1080p Capable HDMI Switching
DD, DTS, and 5.1 LPCM Audio over HDMI

Onkyo SR803 ($489, eCost.com)
2 HDMI in / 1 Out
1080i Capable HDMI Switching
DD, DTS, and 5.1 LPCM Audio over HDMI
THX Select 2 Certified

Onkyo SR674 ($499, Accessories4less.com)
2 HDMI in / 1 Out
1080p Capable HDMI Switching
Upconversion of Analog Sources to HDMI
Deinterlacing of 480i Sources to 480p
DD, DTS, and 5.1 LPCM Audio over HDMI

Pioneer Elite 81TXv ($586, ButterflyPhoto.com)
2 HDMI in / 1 Out
1080p Capable HDMI Switching
Upconversion of Analog Sources to HDMI
DD, DTS, and 5.1 LPCM Audio over HDMI
THX Select 2 Certified

Yamaha HTR-5990 ($605, ButterflyPhoto.com)
2 HDMI in / 1 Out
1080i Capable HDMI Switching
DD, DTS, and 5.1 LPCM Audio over HDMI
THX Select 2 Certified

Denon AVR 3806 ($629, eCost.com)
2 HDMI in / 1 Out
1080p Capable HDMI Switching
Upconversion of Analog Sources to HDMI
Deinterlacing of 480i Sources to 480p
DD, DTS, and 7.1 LPCM Audio over HDMI

Denon AVR 2807 ($629, eCost.com)
2 HDMI in / 1 Out
1080p Capable HDMI Switching
Upconversion of Analog Sources to HDMI
Deinterlacing of 480i Sources to 480p
DD, DTS, and 7.1 LPCM Audio over HDMI

Onkyo SR804 ($649, Accessories4less.com)
2 HDMI in / 1 Out
1080p Capable HDMI Switching
Upconversion of Analog Sources to HDMI
Deinterlacing of 480i Sources to 480p
DD, DTS, and 5.1 LPCM Audio over HDMI
THX Select 2 Certified

Yamaha HTR-6090 ($669, AbesOfMaine.com)
2 HDMI in / 1 Out
1080p Capable HDMI Switching
Upconversion of Analog Sources to HDMI
Deinterlacing of 480i Sources to 480p
DD, DTS, and 7.1 LPCM Audio over HDMI

Marantz SR5001 ($699, OneCall.com)
2 HDMI in / 1 Out
1080p Capable HDMI Switching
DD, DTS, and 5.1 LPCM Audio over HDMI

Pioneer Elite 82TXs ($806, ButterflyPhoto.com)
3 HDMI in / 1 Out
1080p Capable HDMI Switching
Upconversion of Analog Sources to HDMI
Scaling of Video Sources to 480p, 720p, and 1080i
DD, DTS, and 7.1 LPCM Audio over HDMI
THX Select 2 Certified

If you want the best for your $800 I'd get the Elite 82TXs for its 3 HDMI inputs, video scaling, and amazing build quality. I love mine. If you want the best bang-for-your-buck from the entire range I'd get the Denon 3806 or 2807 from eCost. Middle of the pack I'd go w/ the Onkyo SR674 for its all-around features and solid build. On the low end the Onkyo SR604 is still a good choice but you lose conversion of analog sources to HDMI. I had a Yamaha RX-V1700 (same as HTR-6090) and didn't care for the sound, was unimpressed with the build, and hated the remote... that said it probably has one of the best HDMI implementations (no known bugs) even though it only has only 2 inputs and only deinterlaces to 480p (doesn't scale to 720p or 1080i).

As much as I like Pioneer (i've had 5 in the past 5 yrs, D810s, D811s, Elite 43TX, 1014TX, Elite 82TSs) I would not get the 1016TX if HDMI and next-generation disc support (HD-DVD and Bluray, Dolby TruHD and DTS-Master) are important to you. It does not read audio from HDMI at all and is only used for video switching. There are better HDMI implementations that open up the world of next-generation discs w/ losless audio (without requiring HDMI 1.3) as well as true single-cable functionality.

#4 of 87 Dave H

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Posted January 11 2007 - 03:05 AM

Stephen,

I'm interested in an HDMI receiver - for my PS3 and I may get a Toshiba HD-A2. I'm interested in being able to play all of the advanced HD audio (LPCM, TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, DTS-MA, etc.) - what is the best out of these for $600 or less? (and which have had little or no compatibility issues with these new HD players).

I'm currently using the Yamaha HTR-5890. I don't want to step down in audio quality/clean sound from it - problem is it has no HDMI for advanced audio on the HD discs.

Also, do I need two HDMI inputs since I may have two HD players?

Also, I only need 5.1. Thanks.

#5 of 87 Stephen Hopkins

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Posted January 11 2007 - 03:32 AM

The 5890 was the mass-market version of the RX-V1500. To stay in that quality range you'll need to look at something like HTR-6090, Onkyo SR-674, or if you can stretch your budget to $650, the Onkyo SR804. These all offer 5.1 or 7.1 LPCM over HDMI as well as analog-to-hdmi video conversion and 480i-to-480p deinterlacing. You just missed eCost having the Denon 2807 and 3806 for $630 as b-stock.

If you can do without analog-to-HDMI video conversion then eCost has a GREAT deal going right now, $475 for the Onkyo SR803. It handles 5.1 LPCM over HDMI w/ 2 in and 1 out with a very robust amp section and auto-setup. If you have any component/composite/s-video sources you'll still have to run component cables for them, but that's the only drawback I can think of for this unit. Since prices have come down pretty quickly on the SR804 it's not as great a deal as it was (when the SR804 was pre-order for $800-$1000) but it's still a great deal if your budget is hard-capped at $600 and you can live without analog-to-hdmi video conversion.

I was leaning heavily towards the S803 or SR804 until my father-in-law bought me a Yamaha RX-V1700 for christmas (which I exchanged for a Pioneer Elite 82TXs when it went on a breif sale).

#6 of 87 Dave H

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Posted January 11 2007 - 04:24 AM

Thanks, I may swing for the 803. Does the 804 offer anything better?

Are there any reported compatibility issues with this receiver and ther HD players? I've read where some HDMI players dont adjust the LFE adequately, etc. etc.

Also, what kind of warranty does ecost offer on a refurb unit such as this? Are they good with returns if there's an issue, etc.?

#7 of 87 Stephen Hopkins

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Posted January 11 2007 - 04:56 AM

eCost is an authorized dealer of Onkyo for both A-Stock and Refurbished items. The SR803 would have 90-days from Onkyo.

The SR804 does offer a few upgrades over the SR803, the most notable two being conversion of composite/s-video/component video to HDMI, and scaling of 480i sources to 480p. If either of those are important to you (i.e. you have analog 480i sources and only want to run one cable to your display) then I'd move on to the SR804 (which is still a great deal at $650 from accessories4less.com).

#8 of 87 Dave H

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Posted January 11 2007 - 05:59 AM

Last thing - do you think the amp is better/cleaner in the 803 compared to my HTR-5890?

#9 of 87 Stephen Hopkins

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Posted January 11 2007 - 06:17 AM

My only direct experience w/ Yamaha is w/ the RX-V1700, which is in the same lineage as the 5890. I found it to have plenty of power but not be the clearest of amps... dialogue was a bit muddy. This could, however, be attributed to the YPAO just as much as the actual amp. That said, from what demoing I've done w/ the SR803 and SR804 it had similar power (plenty) but was much clearer without being bright... very neutral in my opinion. I didn't do any side-by-side comparissons or have either of the Onkyos in my own setup so my comparissons are not scientific by any means. After having the RX-V1700 in my own setup, if I were doing it again and the money was coming from my pocket (instead of my father-in-laws) I'd probably get the Onkyo SR804... only reason I'd chose it over the SR803 is to avoid having to run component video to my projector since none of the HDMI cable boxes seem to play nice w/ receivers in the signal path.

#10 of 87 rocky3son

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Posted January 11 2007 - 07:58 AM

Check out Marantz SR5001 or Marantz line, very happy with SR5001.

#11 of 87 Dave H

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Posted January 11 2007 - 09:39 AM

Stephen,

I decided to go with something brand new and I'm about to push the button on the Onkyo TX-SR804 (since the 803 brand new seems unavailable anywhere). I can get the unit for $714 shipped from an authorized dealer (J&R). A little higher than what I was going to spend, but is this still an optimal receiver for this price? Thanks.

#12 of 87 gene c

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Posted January 11 2007 - 11:35 AM

6ave.com has the 804 for $668 shipped and ac4l.com has an 803 factory refurb for $579 + shipping.
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#13 of 87 Stephen Hopkins

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Posted January 11 2007 - 12:06 PM

Looking at brand-new I doubt you'll do much better at all... accessories4less.com is an authorized dealer and they have the SR804 for $650 + SH, though it's currently out of stock. Only other option i'd consider in the range would be the Marantz SR5001 which OneCall and Cambridge Soundworks have for $699.

#14 of 87 Dave H

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Posted January 12 2007 - 05:49 AM

Stephen,

Do you think the Denon 2807 is on the same level as the Onkyo SR804?

It seems to be slightly more money, but my concern is there seems to be issues with the PS3 compatibility using 1080p with the SR804 (on AVS).

Now, I'll only be using 1080i for now, but I'm thinking of the future when I go 1080p.

#15 of 87 Stephen Hopkins

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Posted January 12 2007 - 06:14 AM

I'd say the 2807 is definitely on the same level as the SR804... other than its issues w/ 1080p passthrough I'd say the SR804 is on the same level as most $1000-$1200 receivers, it's just available for much less than retail because Onkyo's supply-chain isn't as constricted as the likes of Denon, Pioneer Elite, and Marantz.

#16 of 87 Dave H

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Posted January 12 2007 - 07:18 AM

Thanks. I just pulled the trigger on the 804 - I actually ended up going through Crutchfield for $15 more since their customer service is excellent and they are great with returns should I encounter a problem.

#17 of 87 BrokebutHappy

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Posted January 13 2007 - 11:12 AM

I have a samsung lcd capable of 1080p and a PS3. Is the dennon 2807 better at transmiting the 1080p of the blue ray then the onkyo 674 or 804? I wanna make sure I get the final piece of my puzzle right.

#18 of 87 Stephen Hopkins

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Posted January 13 2007 - 12:57 PM

From what I've read the Onkyos are having some trouble passing 1080p from the PS3, though it's technicaly the PS3's fault and not the Onkyo's (supposed to be fixed in a future PS3 firmware update). That said, the Denon 2807, 3806, and Pioneer Elite 82TXs and 84TXsi are both passing PS3 1080p correctly.

#19 of 87 BrokebutHappy

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Posted January 13 2007 - 01:35 PM

Thanks Stephen, I was leaning towards the 674 but looks like I may fall on the 2807. Would be really nice if it would pass the signal without the receiver being on, that way dont always have to have the amp on.

#20 of 87 Stephen Hopkins

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Posted January 13 2007 - 01:45 PM

I don't think any will pass video/audio without the receiver being on. The video circuit needs power to act as a repeater... sounds like a switch may be what you need.