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IS SVS REALLY GOOD?


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#1 of 61 OFFLINE   MiguelP

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Posted September 16 2006 - 03:52 PM

I've been hearing about this SVS beating Definitive Tech Supercube Reference and beating Velodyne Subwoofers and for half the price of the compeition. Whats so good about SVS? I hear their entry level PB12 packs a punch and can keep up with the SUPERCUBE from Deftech.

#2 of 61 OFFLINE   Seth=L

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Posted September 16 2006 - 03:56 PM

On output and maybe even extension yes, but I don't know about accuracy. I keep hearing they have muddy, sluggish bass. I have heard the supercube, and it doesn't do bad on extension or output and does good with quickness and accuracy it's got punch. So if you want punch and output look at HSU VTF-3 II it is the largest they carry. I have a HSU STF-2 and it is no slouch.

#3 of 61 OFFLINE   MiguelP

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Posted September 16 2006 - 07:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth=L
On output and maybe even extension yes, but I don't know about accuracy. I keep hearing they have muddy, sluggish bass. I have heard the supercube, and it doesn't do bad on extension or output and does good with quickness and accuracy it's got punch. So if you want punch and output look at HSU VTF-3 II it is the largest they carry. I have a HSU STF-2 and it is no slouch.


What has muddy, sluggish bass? Are you referring to the Definitive Technology SCR? Or the SVS Models?

I was in store called Ultimate Electronics here in Arizona they had one of the SuperCube Reference Subwoofers in a home theater demo room. I was at least about 60feet or maybe more I was in a different home theater demonstration room about 2 rooms to the right where I heard this this really deep bass extension...I followed where the bass was coming from and there it was the Super Cube Reference. I was immediately awed and amazed how powerful this subwoofer was, it was playing that movie " Disney's Incredibles" the part where the missles are targeting the jetplane. The subwoofer is quite expensive about 1999.99 dollars which right now I'm trying to find the same peformance for half the price, ive been hearing about the SVS subs kicking some butt.

and that also!! Ive been hearing about that alot SVS and HSU's on home theater forums, sound & vision forums pretty much the a/v forums. ARE THEY DAT GOOD?

#4 of 61 OFFLINE   BillHewitt

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Posted September 16 2006 - 07:44 PM

Well, based on Ed Mullen's wonderful review of the PB10-ISD (as close as SVS gets to "entry-level") and these two reviews of the Supercube 2 and Supercube 3 (click the Lab Results PDF link), the PB10-ISD embarrasses both of them in terms of extension and output...all for less money. Since then, SVS has introduced an improved driver (the NSD) into the PB10, so it should have more output and extension. Add to that the fact that the PB12-NSD outperforms the PB10-NSD, and I think it's a safe bet that the PB12 will beat the lower end Supercubes pretty handily. I can't find a frequency response graph of the Supercube reference so that comparison is going to have to wait a while.

As far as what's good about SVS, well...they seem to make good products that cost significantly less than comparable products from other manufacturers. Their customer service is apparently pretty dang good, since Tom and Ron from SVS post here fairly often. Finally, they have this nifty animation on their site.

Soooo...yeah, I think that about sums it up.

Seth=L, where do you keep hearing this? I have honestly never read that in a review of an SVS product (professional or otherwise). I'd appreciate a link of some kind, if you can dig one up. Some negative feedback on SVS would be a breath of fresh air. I tire of hearing how wonderful they are all the time. Posted Image

I think the worst thing I've ever heard about them is that their subs are very large (which is true, generally). Also, people sometimes claim that their bass isn't especially "fast", but never with any kind of evidence for it. The group delay and THD numbers I've seen for their subs have always seemed pretty good, which I guess is a strike against the naysayers.

Note that I don't have any affiliation with SVS (don't even own any of their products). I just call it like I see it.

#5 of 61 OFFLINE   MiguelP

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Posted September 16 2006 - 09:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillHewitt
Well, based on Ed Mullen's wonderful review of the PB10-ISD (as close as SVS gets to "entry-level") and these two reviews of the Supercube 2 and Supercube 3 (click the Lab Results PDF link), the PB10-ISD embarrasses both of them in terms of extension and output...all for less money. Since then, SVS has introduced an improved driver (the NSD) into the PB10, so it should have more output and extension. Add to that the fact that the PB12-NSD outperforms the PB10-NSD, and I think it's a safe bet that the PB12 will beat the lower end Supercubes pretty handily. I can't find a frequency response graph of the Supercube reference so that comparison is going to have to wait a while.

As far as what's good about SVS, well...they seem to make good products that cost significantly less than comparable products from other manufacturers. Their customer service is apparently pretty dang good, since Tom and Ron from SVS post here fairly often. Finally, they have this nifty animation on their site.

Soooo...yeah, I think that about sums it up.

Supercube Reference is rated to play lower than 15hz,but even when hitting lower than 15hz we don't know how loud it will play at 15hz or lower. I currently own a Defintive Technology Pro Sub 200TL it plays low,but not too loud at 18hz maybe at 65dB or maybe a little higher 70dB not too sure,but it lacks on the upper range bass. Its an ok sub, not too great. The 200tl can only play low,but not play loud. Sometimes DEF TECH are too biased with thier specs. But Def Tech do have some serious bass with their Supercube line ups. To be honest I cant honestly say SVS is better than Def Tech Subs till I actually hear a SVS subwoofer. I have never own one or seen one before,but I've been seriouslly hearing about it all over the HT Forums or any other ht forum sites...svs this...svs that...blah blah blah! I'm interested now.

I'm thinking about getting a PB12 ultra or just the regular PB12,but my eyes caught the SB12-Plus its cheaper,but not sure how well thats going to peform. The only thing getting to me is the other competition which is also interests me. I was thinking about Outlaw Audio,but too expensive not in my budget, the new Defintive Technology Pro Sub 1000TL which is 499.99, CambridgeSoundworks Newton Series P500 for 699.99 theres alot of ht subs out there if PB12 can outpeform this subs then I will just have to reconsider.

#6 of 61 OFFLINE   MiguelP

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Posted September 16 2006 - 09:49 PM

WOW thats not bad at all the PB10 Peformance stats for an entry level subwoofer thats amazing other subs ive encountered cost about 2grand and has this similar stats

SVS PB10-ISD 10% THD Values (Ground Plane 2 Meters):

20 Hz: 93.9 dB (8.0 % - amplifier limited)
22 Hz: 96.9 dB (2.7 % - amplifier limited)
25 Hz: 102.2 dB
32 Hz: 104.1 dB
40 Hz: 105.8 dB
50 Hz: 106.7 dB
63 Hz: 105.7 dB
80 Hz: 104.0 dB

20-80 Hz: Average 102.4 dB; Bandwidth Linearity 96%
22-80 Hz: Average 103.6 dB; Bandwidth Linearity 97%
25-80 Hz: Average 104.8 dB; Bandwidth Linearity 98%

#7 of 61 OFFLINE   Dan Keefe

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Posted September 16 2006 - 11:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiguelP
Supercube Reference is rated to play lower than 15hz,but even when hitting lower than 15hz we don't know how loud it will play at 15hz or lower. I currently own a Defintive Technology Pro Sub 200TL it plays low,but not too loud at 18hz maybe at 65dB or maybe a little higher 70dB not too sure,but it lacks on the upper range bass. Its an ok sub, not too great. The 200tl can only play low,but not play loud. Sometimes DEF TECH are too biased with thier specs. But Def Tech do have some serious bass with their Supercube line ups. To be honest I cant honestly say SVS is better than Def Tech Subs till I actually hear a SVS subwoofer. I have never own one or seen one before,but I've been seriouslly hearing about it all over the HT Forums or any other ht forum sites...svs this...svs that...blah blah blah! I'm interested now.

I'm thinking about getting a PB12 ultra or just the regular PB12,but my eyes caught the SB12-Plus its cheaper,but not sure how well thats going to peform. The only thing getting to me is the other competition which is also interests me. I was thinking about Outlaw Audio,but too expensive not in my budget, the new Defintive Technology Pro Sub 1000TL which is 499.99, CambridgeSoundworks Newton Series P500 for 699.99 theres alot of ht subs out there if PB12 can outpeform this subs then I will just have to reconsider.
I auditioned the supercubes a few months ago...I just ended up purchasing the SB12 plus/2 from SVS...gimme a couple of days and I will be glad to tell the difference, but cost was a reason i didn't go with the DT subs...the SVS is almost half the cost and all reviews have said the entry level SVS' crush the DT's so if you are looking at the SB12's ...I would have to say for the money it is a no brainer...but I will let you know...I am setting it up today.

#8 of 61 OFFLINE   Arthur S

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Posted September 17 2006 - 02:40 AM

You will be awestruck by the Plus/2, nuff said.

#9 of 61 OFFLINE   Luna5

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Posted September 17 2006 - 03:19 AM

My PB12 NSD is going to be delivered on Monday. It's replacing a Velodyne CHT-12 that I've had for 5 or 6 years and from accounts from people making the same upgrade there will be no comparison. The Velo was not cheap when I bought it...$500.00 and considering that the SVS is only $599.00 I'm really looking forward to getting the SVS in my system. A couple of years ago I needed to replace the driver on my Velo and purchased a new replacement from them. I was shocked to see the quality of the driver....very light weight with a very cheap looking stamped steel frame. The replacement was all of $40.00...shipped. Not what I expected to see in a $500.00 sub ( I know $500.00 is considered cheap in some circles). I'm expecting a lot from the SVS and from what I've read it really delivers!
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#10 of 61 OFFLINE   BrianTwig

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Posted September 17 2006 - 06:01 AM

Are you suggesting that SVS subs are muddy and inaccurate?

My PB12-NSD/2 performs exceptionally well on music (and I listen to bass heavy stuff). It just kills on Primus and live Metallica is unreal. Its HT performance is beyond reproach.
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#11 of 61 OFFLINE   MiguelP

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Posted September 17 2006 - 07:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Keefe
I auditioned the supercubes a few months ago...I just ended up purchasing the SB12 plus/2 from SVS...gimme a couple of days and I will be glad to tell the difference, but cost was a reason i didn't go with the DT subs...the SVS is almost half the cost and all reviews have said the entry level SVS' crush the DT's so if you are looking at the SB12's ...I would have to say for the money it is a no brainer...but I will let you know...I am setting it up today.


Well the SB12 looks better than the PB12 in design overall,but Im not really sure how it will sound,but yea I will be glad to hear about your opinion if possible you should make a video and upload it on youtube so I can least hear it. It wont be the best sound possible due to limits of the mic in most cams,but at least show me.

#12 of 61 OFFLINE   MiguelP

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Posted September 17 2006 - 07:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luna5
My PB12 NSD is going to be delivered on Monday. It's replacing a Velodyne CHT-12 that I've had for 5 or 6 years and from accounts from people making the same upgrade there will be no comparison. The Velo was not cheap when I bought it...$500.00 and considering that the SVS is only $599.00 I'm really looking forward to getting the SVS in my system. A couple of years ago I needed to replace the driver on my Velo and purchased a new replacement from them. I was shocked to see the quality of the driver....very light weight with a very cheap looking stamped steel frame. The replacement was all of $40.00...shipped. Not what I expected to see in a $500.00 sub ( I know $500.00 is considered cheap in some circles). I'm expecting a lot from the SVS and from what I've read it really delivers!


How much usually svs charge for the shipping? U guys really changing your subs to svs eh? They must be good then

#13 of 61 OFFLINE   MiguelP

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Posted September 17 2006 - 07:18 AM

This is a video of my home theater dont mind the crt based rear projection that I have,but hey at least crts have two strong advantages

1. Great on black/shadowing details that lcd and dlp yet cannot match
2. Great price!

I just bought my Cambridge Soundworks Newton Series T100 and I think they sound great for music and movies. They only have 2 5 1/4 polymer cones with rubber surround,but its bass exceeds my own dam* Pro Sub 200TL when it comes to upper range bass. I seriuslly need to change my subwoofer to SVS then. Which would it be guys? PB12 OR SB12?

My HT

This will sound better if you guys have a subwoofer in your pc speakers

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#14 of 61 OFFLINE   BillHewitt

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Posted September 17 2006 - 07:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiguelP
Well the SB12 looks better than the PB12 in design overall,but Im not really sure how it will sound,but yea I will be glad to hear about your opinion if possible you should make a video and upload it on youtube so I can least hear it. It wont be the best sound possible due to limits of the mic in most cams,but at least show me.
No offense, but that seems like a very bad way to get any kind of impression of audio equipment. Not only will it be limited by the mic they are using or the compression used to get it online (unless it's lossless), they will also be limited by the playback system you use. If the recording sounds better than your system, you won't be able to tell, because your system won't be able to reproduce it properly. Posted Image

I don't think you can use embed tags here. The good news is that the links to your movies on youtube still work, so you could just leave those.

#15 of 61 OFFLINE   Arthur S

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Posted September 17 2006 - 07:29 AM

Miguel

The SB12 Plus is good for smaller rooms and especially for music. It is also very, very attractive. The PB12 NSD will give you more volume in any room and is a better choice, especially for HT use, if you have room for it.

When you go to the SVS site, by clicking on their ads on this forum, choose any of their subs and there is a calculator for shipping cost. PB-12 NSD probably around $60.

#16 of 61 OFFLINE   TimJC

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Posted September 17 2006 - 09:15 AM

Yes, SVS is really good.


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#17 of 61 OFFLINE   Vader

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Posted September 17 2006 - 09:43 AM

Quote:
On output and maybe even extension yes, but I don't know about accuracy. I keep hearing they have muddy, sluggish bass. I have heard the supercube, and it doesn't do bad on extension or output and does good with quickness and accuracy it's got punch.

Based on the DT supercube the local Ultimate Electronics has set up in their HT demo room, the extension, output, and accuracy don't come close to my dual 20-39 PC+ cylinders IMHO... Keep in mind that DT does not publish the +/- of the frequency response, just the frequency response itself. Well, imagine the technician taking the FR: "Well, the cone did move a little at 15 Hz, so I guess it did respond. Put it in the specs." I'm not saying that DT does not make good stuff, just that they are more "liberal" with their specs than they could be if they published them correctly. Both SVS and HSU make killer subs (I have not heard the HSU, but their reputation preceeds them). I went with SVS for the same reason, and will never look back...

Quote:
I keep hearing they have muddy, sluggish bass.

I have read the same thing -- always on SVS-bashing boards by owners of other "subs" that feel the need to justify their paying many times as much for inferior performance. I've read the same thing about HSU on many of the same sites -- BS in both cases. The only way you could possibly get "slow, sluggish" sound out of either SVS or HSU is to a) connect/calibrate it incorrectly (in which case you should get help if you don't know what you are doing before making snap judgements), or b) have a defective sub (SVS customer service is legendary, and I have heard that HSU is also quite good).
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#18 of 61 OFFLINE   Dan Keefe

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Posted September 17 2006 - 10:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiguelP
Well the SB12 looks better than the PB12 in design overall,but Im not really sure how it will sound,but yea I will be glad to hear about your opinion if possible you should make a video and upload it on youtube so I can least hear it. It wont be the best sound possible due to limits of the mic in most cams,but at least show me.

Damn I'm sorry...I got the PB12Plus/2...wasn't paying attention to the letters

#19 of 61 OFFLINE   MiguelP

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Posted September 17 2006 - 02:53 PM

The thing is I'm also a audiophiler on a budget so even when you guys talk about 499.99-699 dollar SVS subs its still kinda expensive. Well compare to 1000 dollar subs when something cheaper like a svs sub will outpeform. I still need to sell my Pro Sub 200TL,but I know no one will buy it. I bought that damn thing for 549.99 at Ultimate Electronics before that I had a Polk Audio PSW-12 dat one was even worst. and before that LOL! I had the JBL NorthRidge Series Subwoofer for 499.99 and that was even worser than the Polk PSW-12. So at the end I liked the peformance of the Def Tech pro sub until I found it lacking at some points. Thanks for all the suggestions guys!

#20 of 61 OFFLINE   Seth=L

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Posted September 17 2006 - 03:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vader
Based on the DT supercube the local Ultimate Electronics has set up in their HT demo room, the extension, output, and accuracy don't come close to my dual 20-39 PC+ cylinders IMHO... Keep in mind that DT does not publish the +/- of the frequency response, just the frequency response itself. Well, imagine the technician taking the FR: "Well, the cone did move a little at 15 Hz, so I guess it did respond. Put it in the specs." I'm not saying that DT does not make good stuff, just that they are more "liberal" with their specs than they could be if they published them correctly. Both SVS and HSU make killer subs (I have not heard the HSU, but their reputation preceeds them). I went with SVS for the same reason, and will never look back...



I have read the same thing -- always on SVS-bashing boards by owners of other "subs" that feel the need to justify their paying many times as much for inferior performance. I've read the same thing about HSU on many of the same sites -- BS in both cases. The only way you could possibly get "slow, sluggish" sound out of either SVS or HSU is to a) connect/calibrate it incorrectly (in which case you should get help if you don't know what you are doing before making snap judgements), or b) have a defective sub (SVS customer service is legendary, and I have heard that HSU is also quite good).
You know what you are exactly right. And I know that I shouldn't have made that first post. From now on, if I haven't heard it myself, then I am not going to say a word about it. I can't continue basing my opinions on others opinion. I will just stick to what I know for a fact, and let that be it.

And buy the way, I just got a mint used HSU STF-2 for 70 bucks at Cash America Pawn, and rocks. Quick, deep, authoritive, bass from a 10 inch sub, who da thunk it? Good thing I got it, because my M&K died a day after I bought it, so the HSU is going into the main system untill I can sort out what happened to the M&K and fix the thing.

Thank you Derek and others.


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