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Surround Speaker Placement Question


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9 replies to this topic

#1 of 10 Neil White

Neil White

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Posted January 06 2004 - 04:12 PM

Upgrade bug kicking in to high gear. First was a new widescreen a few months ago, then a new Denon DVD player. A new 3803 is on the way so I really must do something about my speakers ...

I'm in the process of auditioning new speakers. Finally replacing my, cough, Bose AM10s. Been looking at Paradigm Monitor 7s for the mains and will likely pair them with ADP-370 for surrounds. Note that I am not going for 6.1/7.1 due to current cabling restrictions so these will be regular surrounds. Here's my concern - my current wiring has the surrounds in my fairly large room up in the corners of the rear of the room.

Click here for a diagram -> http://www.familywhi....ter/htplan.jpg

The diagram is out of date in that I at least have my mains down on stands either side of the TV now versus up in the front corners (understand I had the room wired before I knew what I was doing). The current surrounds are well above and behind the seating position. I believe the best placement is to the side of the seating position and 3 to 5 feet above your ears. I really don't want to monkey with fishing the wires or running them on the outside of the walls.

The ADP-370s are dipoles so I'm not sure how to position them in my room. Will mounting them flush on the back wall (maybe down in height a little than the Bose are) be a problem in that the outer drivers will almost immediately encounter a wall? Would a better solution be to mount them on the side walls, still in the corner to keep my wiring tidy?

If the dipoles are a real no-no in my situations, got any suggestions for other Paradigms that might do the trick?

Thanks in advance.

N

#2 of 10 DavidES

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Posted January 06 2004 - 08:25 PM

If this was my room, I would rotate what's in room picture left 90 degrees ie left main where left surround is. That would allow me to mount the surrounds on the wall and have entry to theater from rear for guests and also allow a more balanced front sound stage, assuming that on the 18'11" wall those are windows.

Or if SAF allows; use stands or hang from ceiling for rears and leave room setup as is. Dipoles really need to be setup the way you stated. Hanging from ceiling would be recommended if wiring is in ceiling.

Just suggestions though.
David S.

#3 of 10 cabreau

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Posted January 07 2004 - 12:33 AM

I was in the same boat as you when looking at upgrading, except I was going from Paradigm to Paradigm and not Bose to Paradigm. Regardless, my suggestion is this:

Before buying the Monitor 7's, just have a listen to the Studio 40's and/or 60's. You WILL notice a difference in clarity and precision (Eric Clapton Unplugged did it for me). The pick hitting the string is so much clearer on the Studios. Instead of buying ADP-370's for a whopping amount of money, buy Atoms and use them for the surrounds instead...they'll do just fine...and you'll save yourself a good $400-500. Mount them in the back corners pointing toward the center of the room. It looks like they are far enough away that by the time the soundwave hits you it will have fully developed and have a wider coverage. Take the money you saved from not buying the ADP's and put it towards upgrading your Monitor 7's to Studio 40's or Studio 60's. Buy the matching CC-470 (or 570 if you can afford it). The difference in sound is amazing and you won't regret it...but as always, give it a listen to make sure your ears agree. You'll notice difference in the fronts ten times more than differences in the surrounds. The fronts, center and sub are where you will hear the biggest difference. The Atoms are outstanding for surround with a decent range and they are small enough to find mounts that will hold them up there.

In that diagram I think that those left and right mains were too far from the T.V. and too close to the wall. You don't want the soundwave to catch on the corner of that wall near the right main. Posted Image Good choice moving them closer to the TV.
"...He who knows how to live can walk abroad without fear of rhinocerous or tiger. He will not be wounded in battle. For in him rhinoceroses can find no place to thrust their horn, tigers can find no place to use their claws, and weapons no place to pierce. Why is this so? Because he has no...

#4 of 10 Neil White

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Posted January 07 2004 - 02:06 AM

Thanks gentlemen for the suggestions. Rotating the room is not really an option for a number of reasons. Cabreau, I will seriously look into your suggestion. Would Atoms be timbre matched with the Studio's though?

Thanks again, N

#5 of 10 cabreau

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Posted January 07 2004 - 05:24 AM

It's most important to timbre match the fronts. That is where it really matters. If you want the most for your money, make the fronts/centers/subs good. Even if the surrounds weren't perfectly matched, you'll never notice. And here...from the Paradigm catalog..."Keep in mind, however, that since all Paradigm speakers are timbre-matched, there are many other combinations for you to consider..."

I'd let you demo my system, but I'm way up here in ME, and you are way down in TX. Posted Image
"...He who knows how to live can walk abroad without fear of rhinocerous or tiger. He will not be wounded in battle. For in him rhinoceroses can find no place to thrust their horn, tigers can find no place to use their claws, and weapons no place to pierce. Why is this so? Because he has no...

#6 of 10 Neil White

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Posted January 07 2004 - 05:47 AM

Very helpful cabreau. Thanks again. I'll be heading back to my dealer who has offered to set-up a listening room with my choice of speakers all balanced etc. So far I've only listened to stereo music on the digms.

When I think about it, my dealer had in fact suggested lower-in-the-range surrounds but at the time I questioned his suggestion (and admitedly, I was guided some by the recommended systems on the Paradigm Website). You have just re-enforced that but the final judgement will be from my listening (plus influenced by the fact that dipoles are probably a bust in my set-up anyway).

My one concern now with the Atoms is their power handling. I know it's best to have more headroom in your amp than the speaker is rated at but the Atoms have a 15-80 watt rating with 50 watts max. I'll be driving these with a Denon 3803 (110w). I would guess I would still be okay but the 50 watt thing seems low.

Sorry, so many questions ...

Regards, N

#7 of 10 cabreau

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Posted January 08 2004 - 12:17 AM

The Denon rating is not accurate. While they claim 110w, when they are driving the surrounds along with the fronts and center, they are probably only producing about 45-65 watts. There are several threads on this subject if you look around. I know that Harman Kardon and a few other receivers list an accurate wattage per channel, but most of the Onkyo's, Denon's, Yamaha's etc. rate the receivers higher than what they actually are. You'll be fine with the Atoms being used for surrounds. When running in stereo, your receiver will be able to push closer to the 110w rating for those two channels. The Studio 20's are rated for 100w, so you should be all set. But if you are saving the money on the surrounds by getting Atoms instead of the dipoles, I'd seriously consider 40's or 60's with that extra money (and a cc-470 or 570 to match).
Keep us updated. Posted Image
"...He who knows how to live can walk abroad without fear of rhinocerous or tiger. He will not be wounded in battle. For in him rhinoceroses can find no place to thrust their horn, tigers can find no place to use their claws, and weapons no place to pierce. Why is this so? Because he has no...

#8 of 10 Neil White

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Posted January 08 2004 - 03:33 AM

Well now my challenge is getting a better price than my dealer is offering. It seems that they are not going to budge from what I consider to be too much. There's only three dealers in the whole area so it seems I'm going to be doing some driving.

Thanks again cabreau.

N

#9 of 10 cabreau

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Posted January 08 2004 - 01:08 PM

What are they asking?
"...He who knows how to live can walk abroad without fear of rhinocerous or tiger. He will not be wounded in battle. For in him rhinoceroses can find no place to thrust their horn, tigers can find no place to use their claws, and weapons no place to pierce. Why is this so? Because he has no...

#10 of 10 Neil White

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Posted January 08 2004 - 03:20 PM

Well,

Here's the original breakdown from my first visit to them:

Monitor 7's 1pr - $699
ADP-170 1pr - $449
PW-2100 1 - $729*
CC-370 1 - $349

* Also quoted me $899 for the PW-2200 (which is what I really want)

I've been emailing them asking for different things. After telling them I was off to get a better price, they came back with the following (which they positioned by saying they had reviewed their Paradigm line and this was their new standard pricing):

Monitor 7's 1pr - $659
ADP-170 1pr - $429
PW-2100 1 - $685*
CC-370 1 - $329

* I would assume they will come down $40 to $60 or more on the PW-2200.

I asked about switching the ADP-170 for the Mini Monitors (I know you have recommended the Atoms). They said that would save ~$80 over the ADP-170's.

Not gotten Studio prices off them yet.

What do you reckon?

N