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Upgraded: Floorstanding & Center Suggestions for $5,000 or less


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#1 of 46 OFFLINE   Allen Marshall

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Posted November 30 2003 - 07:54 PM

"Loudspeaker for $2,500 or less"

ok i made a thread with a similar name back when i first joined hometheaterforum.com but that one was more towards super really good sound quality for under $2,000 a pair.

I've listened to different speakers, i have 3 different home theaters in my house and i've come to realize that movies just all sound the same to me that or atleast i dont notice and go (hmm, this just isnt the way i want this movie to sound) and when i've auditioned speakers before some of them sound the same other sound alittle different to me but by different they only really seem louder or quieter then others at the same volume level on the reciever, solved by turning up the voluming.

i've hooked up different kinds of speakers as fronts in my own room, KLH satellites, Athena AS-B2 bookshelves, Athena AS-F2 floorstandings, Sharp something or other bookshelves and lasonic satellites. They all sounded to me or atleast gave me the same impression that the movie sounded the same in each speaker. The only differences were all the other speakers had crappy bass and i dont have a subwoofer yet, the other difference was the AS-F2 could go louder then them in the long run well except the sharps, those are pretty big bookshelves so it could probably go as loud as my AS-F2's.

So i find myself in a very annoying situation, if they all sound good what do i need? It seems to me i desire speakers that go louder, much much louder, my reciever is only 75x6 (im gonna get a new reciever soon to) and before i can even come close to the max volume of the reciever the sound on the AS-F2 will crap up, The sound starts getting distorted and its unable to produce sub noises while doing mid noises or it sounds terrible, im talking about music, movies i dont need it to be super loud, it goes loud enough for movies but those times i want to listen to music is what im worried about. Believe me its loud, but not really loud before it starts crapping up, its actually a very considerable volume even my parents would enjoy as long as it was jazz...that is if the speaker wouldnt do what it does.

So i guess i need a speaker that just goes really freaking loud, but still can do movies good cause they'll be my fronts and he AS-F2's will be my rears. I first had my eye on the Rocket RS750s' but it seems to me there kinda skinny and short and there 200 watt power handling, they dont look like something that could go as loud as i want them without distortion. Bass doesnt really matter cause im gettin a subwoofer. I hear JBL's are good for music cause most of them go pretty loud and i've been itchin at the E100 but it looks like its a bass psycho machine.

Whats the volume pretty much no one would actually listen past in there own home, 130db or something like that? i guess the speaker i want would have to be able to go as high as there or louder without blowing or heading on the brinc of destruction. Budget is $2,500 not a penny more cause the real budget is $2,000 the 500 is the "alittle more then your budget" thing.

Dont suggest any satellites cause im a floorstanding kinda guy and people feel intimadated by them and stuff and they'd look better in the room and well im sure a floorstanding could do anything a satellite could do even if the people at IMAX say otherwise (an army of little speakers on the walls).

Thank you
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#2 of 46 OFFLINE   MikeLi

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Posted November 30 2003 - 09:24 PM

Well I will put a plug in for the Rockets here. Buy front end say the center and two 750s and try them with your system and in your house and see what you think. They will give you the rest later at the same package price. I know once you get them you like many others will fall in love with them and they wont be going back. Even if they did for the amount your spending on speakers, a small shipping charge is nothing compaired to having a set of speakers you will be living with for years to come.

#3 of 46 OFFLINE   Allen Marshall

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Posted November 30 2003 - 11:06 PM

and your saying those little guys will rock the tasba?
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#4 of 46 OFFLINE   BobAlbano

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Posted December 01 2003 - 04:00 AM

Allen, I have invited you for a listen to the Rockets a number of times before and you haven't taken me up on the offer. Why? If you are interested in the Rockets but doubt what they are capable of why not listen to them. The only reason that the Rockets will distort is b.c you aren't feeding them the clean power that they deserve. Any speaker with the exception of a horn loaded speaker is going to distort and probably blow if you are trying to get 120+ db's with a 75 watt receiver. Rockets are special for sure, but even they can't defy the laws of physics. Posted Image

Your assumptions about SPL levels are flawed as to how loud a particular speaker can go. This will depend on a couple different variables. It matters what the sensetivity of the speaker is,how much CLEAN power you are feeding them, what the size of the room is, etc...All of this comes into play when judging a speaker. If you are looking for pure SPL you should probably stick with Klipsch as they will play loud enough to drive anyone from the room if you give them enough power.

#5 of 46 OFFLINE   MikeLi

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Posted December 01 2003 - 08:16 AM

Thanks Bob.. I guess there is obviously more behind this post than I know about...

#6 of 46 OFFLINE   george king

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Posted December 01 2003 - 09:10 AM

Is this $2500 for the fronts only? or for 5 speakers. If for the fronts only, I would say either the gr-research AV-3s, the Kef XQ5s or some of the ACIs.

If this is for 5 speakers. I would say a pair of Kef Q7s fronts (floor standers), Q5s rears (floor standers) and the Q9 for the center.

#7 of 46 OFFLINE   Mike SJ

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Posted December 01 2003 - 09:38 AM

"my reciever is only 75x6 (im gonna get a new reciever soon to) and before i can even come close to the max volume of the reciever the sound on the AS-F2 will crap up, The sound starts getting distorted and its unable to produce sub noises while doing mid noises or it sounds terrible" - this could be a function of the receiver or both the receiver and the speakers. at higher volumes, ive noticed all of the receivers Ive tried added noticable distortion while I was confident the speakers could handle. you also mentioned if ppl listen to their speakers at 130 db's. my gosh, I listen to my setup in the 90-100 db range at max and its loud enough for me. not many speakers can do 130 db's with little or no distortion. My gosh, 130 db's is over 1000 times the needed power compared to 100 db's. do you have an SPL meter? if not, get one and do some tests, you might be surprised at the results.

#8 of 46 OFFLINE   Jeff smit

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Posted December 01 2003 - 09:59 AM

Allen Jobbs said

" i have 3 different home theaters in my house "
" i dont have a subwoofer yet,"

three different home theaters and not a subwoofer to be found hmmmm I smell troll lol

#9 of 46 OFFLINE   Michael R Price

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Posted December 01 2003 - 11:31 AM

I think speakers *capable* of going real loud sound better at any volume. Why the heck would people buy Klipsch speakers if any other speaker could go to 90db just as well?

So, Allen, don't be afraid to look at big and powerful speakers. Of course mini-monitors have more accurate timbre and sound smoother, for the same price. But IMO, big speakers are more fun.

I say, try RF-3s or Adire HE12s...

#10 of 46 OFFLINE   Chris Tabor

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Posted December 01 2003 - 02:39 PM

Allen get you a pair of klipsch RF7's. This is about the only cure for what is sounds like you need. If these don't blow you away with there loud, in your face performance then I don't think there is much else that will. I recommend shopping at americantv. They will bargain down with you on the price and they are authorized resellers. I got mine for $825 each included an extended 5yr performance warranty. You can also usually get some good cable thrown in.

#11 of 46 OFFLINE   Chris Tabor

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Posted December 01 2003 - 02:40 PM

also let me add, i'll have my m&k's withing a couple days so i'll be able to give you a good comparison of them to the klipsch.

#12 of 46 OFFLINE   Allen Marshall

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Posted December 01 2003 - 06:14 PM

Jeff i got 1 KLH subwoofer but its terrible you have to be like 10 inches away from it just to notice it and even then its nothing, it's one of those subwoofers where the front speaker wires plug into it, and another set of speaker wires goes from the subwoofer to the fronts on the reciever.
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#13 of 46 OFFLINE   Anny Chien

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Posted December 01 2003 - 07:23 PM

Try NHT 3.3 used on audiogon

#14 of 46 OFFLINE   Allen Marshall

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Posted December 01 2003 - 10:04 PM

i gotta question here about the Rocket RS750


its got low sensitivity and i dont know what the hell the power handling is cause the site wont say, but its 6 Ohms instead of the billions i see that are 8. Is there a connection there with the not telling the power handling and the low sensitivity? i notice on the specs of alot of recievers it will say something like..130 watts at 8 ohms, 180 watts at 6 or 4. Another question is do all recievers push out more power with lower Ohms or does it have to say it does?
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#15 of 46 OFFLINE   BobAlbano

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Posted December 02 2003 - 01:22 AM

Allen,

I put 300 watts into my Rocket RS750 with no problem...Not enough power will do more damage to a speaker than too much. Power handling is some what meaning less to a certain degree. Jon Lane of the Audio Insider does a good job explaining your question here!

Quote:
Actually, Sean, max power ratings, like everything else, depend on context. If max power means peak power and peak power refers to a valid manufacturer's rating, it can mean a great deal because it can describe a fundamental of a driver's/speaker's construction which has a lot to do with rms power handling, distortion, and maximum output.
For example, in the case of Danish-style domes and cones with oversized voice coils and ventilated motors, peak power ratings can be up to 1kw, which means a lot since those devices will actually withstand huge peaks without failure. This same peak power applied to ordinary drivers generally means catostrophic failure.

I'd agree that most power ratings are taken out of the greater context of sensitivity and true maximum input either before failure or unacceptable distortion, but I feel that properly interpreting honest, valid ratings that adhere to known standards can mean quite a lot.


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#16 of 46 OFFLINE   Chris Tabor

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Posted December 02 2003 - 03:26 AM

Allen, yes, the lower the ohms the higher the input watts will be. Ohms are a measure of resistance, the less resistance the more power is allowed to go through. However, this can be hard on a low or mid end receiver. It can cause extreme heat because its putting a larger load on the equipment then what its intended for. This will usually cause the receiver to go into "protect" mode and shut off.

#17 of 46 OFFLINE   Allen Marshall

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Posted December 02 2003 - 12:10 PM

alrighty

Can recievers push more power into a speaker then it says such as 100x5, can you push more then 100 watts into a front? if not, Bob howd you get 300 watts into 1 speaker i've never seen an amp with that much power lol.
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#18 of 46 OFFLINE   Alex Prosak

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Posted December 02 2003 - 01:07 PM

Allen,

Check out the MC1201 here. A 1200 W monoamp. There are plenty of amplifiers out there that put out 300+. You really need to take up Bob on his offer and go listen.

Regarding how much power receivers can push into a speaker, that's really more a matter having to do with the receiver than what the speaker can take. Some receivers are rated conservatively and can truly put 100+ into each speaker. Most receivers while they quote a true 100x5 or whatever, are optimistically rated and when truly pushing all speakers at once can vary quite a bit but 70-75W is more likely what they're doing when driving all channels. Some have been measured far below that too.


#19 of 46 OFFLINE   Allen Marshall

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Posted December 02 2003 - 06:05 PM

alright, any other speaker suggestions guys?
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#20 of 46 OFFLINE   RichardH

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Posted December 02 2003 - 07:31 PM

Another vote for the Klipsch RF-7's. With 102 dB sensitivity and 250w power handling, you'll give in before they will !!