Remo Williams DVD - MGM screws up BIG TIME! (1 Viewer)

[DaViD Boulet]

Actually, I'm half serious. Naturally I'd never condone supporing a MAR DVD on the basis of principle...

however, neither would I condone purchasing an out-dated 4x3 lbxed transfer that needlessly sacrifices 33% of the potential resolution of the DVD format.

I was just pointing out how displaying either incarnation on your 16x9 monitor results in an identical (OAR) image when all is said and done...so it seems strange to me to boycott one DVD version while openly-embracing the other.

As for me and my house...we will wait for 16x9.

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

David,

I support OAR first and foremost, I realize what your saying, but it's not gonna happen. I am NEVER going to pad FOOLSCREEN's sales by giving them my money.

Let me also make it clear that I always prefer anamorphic transfers, but if this title were at least 4x3 letterboxed it would be good enough for me to buy, and tolerate, until a better anamorphic version came down the pike.

I did so with Titanic and Office Space and am willing to do so again for this. Anamorphic is great, but it's not an absolute deal breaker for me necessarily.

OAR matters most to me, David, anamorphic enhancment is there to do just that, ENHANCE the OAR, the OAR I might add that should be a given. Buying the foolscreen of Remo Williams and zooming in on it as your suggesting is not an option.

 

[Walt Riarson]

I'm sorry if the studio feels that all of us are
being a bit harsh on them in this thread, but they
need to start realizing the damage they are doing
with some of these FULL FRAME decisions they are
making.

I kind of don't blame them though. A good number of their releases are widescreen. Nearly all of their August horror and Midnite Movies line-up is Widescreen.

Yes, I would love to have widescreen versions of Revenge of the Ninja and Hot Dog: The Movie, but come on...They give us widescreen quite a bit more than what a lot of you are acting like.

At least they aren't like Paramount, who refuses to release director's cuts of films they butchered themselves. How come nobody around here criticizes Paramount, when their DVD offenses deal with the actual CONTENT of the films being presented?

But MGM, who goes out of their way to find complete, uncut prints of their movies (and yes, they do release some fullscreen) gets completely flamed here, while Paramount goes by unscathed?

Complete crap. MGM's not perfect by a long shot, but if you flame one studio, you have to flame them all.

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

Paramount goes by unscathed because they release in OAR all the time, not part of the time like MGM.

Paramount also releases their films in their original theatrical cuts, they cannot be faulted for this! Releasing films in foolscreen or P&S IS NOT the same as releasing the theatrical cuts of films!

And any studio that deprives me of films that I love because they were short sighted enough to release them foolscreen only, knowing damn well that everyone wanted this title in OAR, deserves all the criticism I/we can throw at them!

 

[Ronald Epstein]

I agree with the points made above. Paramount
has always released their films OAR. End of argument.

As far as Paramount butchering films -- I don't
know where this has happened. I haven't heard of
any film that Paramount has purposely edited for
a video release.

I would have hoped that a studio like MGM would
have used this forum as a marketing tool just as
every other studio does. I mean, for the past 5
years there have been countless posts about the
possibility of having Remo Williams released
to DVD. We set up a Studio Feedback area for the
benefit of studios like MGM, and had they been
monitoring that area all these years they would
have certainly picked up on the amount of posts
requesting that title.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

the OAR. Buying the foolscreen of Remo
Williams and zooming in on it as your suggesting is not an option.

Actually, the term "anamorphic enhancement" is a misnomer. DVD aspect ratio encoding has 2 options...4x3 and 16x9. There's nothing "enhanced" about a 16x9-encoded image...it's ENCODED specifically to maximize resolution in that output-aspect ratio. I feel strongly about this because far to many HT folks (including industry folks) view 16x9 as an "add on" to what they view as an inherently 4x3-DVD format. That's a bad mindset and leads to bad DVD-production decisions. DVD is as equally a 16x9 format as a 4x3 format.

Anyway...the whole point to what I was saying was just pointing out that will an open matte transfer, the end results are the same whether you "zoom" a 4x3 lbxed transfer that *already* has the area above/below the 16x9 window cut off or whether you zoom the open-matte transfer on your screen which cuts the added image area off in the process (bringing you back to the OAR image composition).

An identical OAR WS image results in both cases. In practical terms for 16x9-display owners there's no compromise in terms of image composition. Consider it a "WS on the fly" feature of your TV. Is that really much different than a WS DVD that then offers "P/S on the fly" feature? A single image that can produce either aspect-ratio upon playback.

Yes, I admit I'm playing the devil's advocate here (I'm a zealous OAR person) and I'm not suggesting that you buy the open-matte version. The reason I raise these points is that I'm suggesting that folks should also play hard-ball with their purchases regarding 4x3-encoded lbxed transfers that scrap 1/3 of the potential picture detail that's possible on DVD.

-dave

 

[Walt Riarson]

And any studio that deprives me of films that I love because they were short sighted enough to release them foolscreen only, knowing damn well that everyone wanted this title in OAR, deserves all the criticism I/we can throw at them!

The thing is, you guys act like MGM is the only studio who does this. They aren't.

Columbia, anyone? Where are the "I hate Columbia" threads? Why pick on just MGM?

Yes, Remo is a beloved title by many people and I too, wish it had been released in widescreen, but MGM has come a long, long way from what they were. Someone mentioned Child's Play and Pumpkinhead earlier in the thread. I'd be willing to bet a substantial amount of money that if those two titles were released for the first time to DVD today, they would both be anamorphic widescreen. There is no doubt in my mind.

Remo Williams is in fullscreen. There has to be a legitamate reason for this. I've noticed a pattern. Horror/sci-fi, drama, and comedy titles get great treatment by MGM. Action/adventure titles do not. Missing in Action 2/3 Double Feature, The Delta Force, etc. are full screen.

Now, why would a company who is releasing Troll/Troll 2 on DVD in anamorphic widescreen release Remo Williams only in fullscreen?

Simple...the people in charge of their action/adventure catalog just don't know much about the DVD business. Their horror disc producers are on top of things. Most of their other departments are on top of things. You can't flame an entire studio for what one branch does.

And yes, I firmly believe Paramount's releasing theatrical versions of films they crudely edited themselves is every bit as bad as releasing a film non-OAR. As I said before, this is a crime against the actual content of a film and not just its presentation. What about the directors out there whose films Paramount edited without their approval? Shouldn't they have the films they made, as they intended them have their time in the spotlight?

And at least when MGM releases a film Fullscreen, they always include at least a trailer, and price the film at a reasonable 10 bucks or so. Paramount charges $20+ for altered films without trailers. Now I ask you, who knows their audience more?

 

[Jesse Skeen]

*Sigh*, guess I'll have to explain this one more time:

Most "fullframe" transfers are NOT completely open-matte- they will zoom in slightly to hide boom mikes and other things that you're not supposed to see. I worked close to 10 years as a projectionist and checked the cropped areas on several films for these sorts of things. Zooming-in on a 16x9 screen will result in all 4 sides of the picture being cropped one way or another.
I do have a few older open-matte transfers that are pretty amazing however- a favorite is The Muppet Movie on Magnetic Video's 1981 laserdisc- in several scenes you can see the people operating the muppets on the bottom of the frame! Another is Wavelength, which has boom mikes visible in almost every scene.

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

David,

that's cool, I hear ya there.

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

Walt,

obviously MGM isn't the only studio to release in foolscreen, it would be fool hearty, not to mention naive, of us to think otherwise. I mean I can think of a couple of foolscreen only titles that Universal released.

However, this thread is directed at MGM in this particular instance, it's not an open thread that's intended to air the dirty laundry of every single studio out their.

MGM screwed up, so MGM is who were targeting in this instance. Now if Paramount or another studio were to screw up this badly, we'd go after them in their own thread.

 

[Walt Riarson]

And for the record, I have e-mailed MGM telling them my disappointment with Remo Williams being FS, as well as other action/adventure titles. Which is the thing I suggest most of you do. So I don't want you guys to think my comments are meant to hurt the cause or anything.

On the other hand, starting a studio flame thread like this is sort of childish, and I'm kind of surprised the mods are supporting it.

Those who want to e-mail MGM though, can e-mail them at [email protected] That's the address I've gotten responses from in the past. I've not gotten one about Remo yet, but I will keep you guys posted if I do. Be polite in your inquiries, and they usually write back.

 

[Rodney K]

What a bummer :frowning: You can add me to the list of non-buyers if this is released as announced.

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

What's childish about this thread, Walt? They have this coming to them!

As Ron stated, they no doubt saw the thread requesting this title in OAR over the course of 5 YEARS, and thay blatently ignored us.

People love this title, of course they're angry, of course they're upset, and were calling MGM on their massive mistake.

Childish? I don't think so.

 

[Malcolm R]

Unless a director has enough experience/clout to have final cut, they're at the mercy of the studio whose money is financing the project. If they don't like the result, I think they're free to go the Alan Smithee route.

Anyway, sounds like this beef is with the theatrical/film division of Paramount, not the home video division. Different subject, different thread.

 

[Qui-Gon John]

Malcom, Yes I too thought he was talking about films were Paramount has forced the director to make changes they did not want or plan, not really about what is released on DVD vs. what was shown in the theater.

BTW, just email MGM too. Oh, and the thread I thought had to do with this and a petition was actually about the stupid Disney and their MI self-destructing disks.

 

[Philip Verdieck]

FOOLSCREEN = NO SALE


My response on the MGM site:

 

[Mark Cappelletty]

This is horrible-- first Miracle Mile, then this.

And it looks like Gator and White Lightnning, both available WS on LD are going to be full-frame only. And I know from a trusted source that a WS (if non-anamorphic) transfer of Miracle Mile exists.

Who at MGM is making these horrible decisions?

 

[Nick Graham]

Hey, don't paint all wrestling fans with the same brush!
I can't conceive how MGM would screw up Remo like this either, but don't indirectly flame other members you may not know exist. And while I can't stand Nascar, I'm sure there are more than a couple of fans of it here at HTF as well. Anybody find out if the Japanese disc has removable subtitles yet?

 

[Dmitry]

Hey, don't paint all wrestling fans with the same brush!

Actually, he isn't. What he's saying is that interests of people with a double-digit IQ are limited to Wrestling and NASCAR, not that fans of Wrestling and NASCAR have double-digit IQs. Your derivation is incorrect (according to the rules of logic, that is.)

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

deleted.