*** Official ETERNAL SUNSHINE OF THE SPOTLESS MIND DiscussionThread (1 Viewer)

[Tino]

The way I interpreted that "Meet me in Montauk" line was that it was a new subconscious memory/suggestion created by Joel as he is fighting the erasure to hang on to anything related to Clementine, with the hope that she may be there, the place where they first met.

 

[Lew Crippen]

You are lost and gone forever,
Dreadful sorry, Clementine.

 

[Holadem]

Well, I actually meant the roots of the name, sounds like "Clemency", for "Pardon", or more appropriately, "Second Chance".

--
H - or third or fourth...

 

[GeoffBr]

If I'm not mistaken, Jim Carrey actually mentions the significance of the name in a conversation with Clementine at the beginning of the movie. So presumably it's intentional.

(For completeness' sake, it's the feminine form of the Latin for merciful or gentle. I think there were a few Pope Clements as well.)

 

[Lew Crippen]

He does, reciting excerpts of the first couple of lines of the song---but he does not reference the refrain, which I presumed that we were supposed to understand for ourselves.

I’m with Geoff—poor Latin scholar that I was. Probably still more exposure than most students have today.

 

[Haggai]

Just got back from this--wow, what a great movie. Quick detail to wrap up from the posts right before this:


No, you're mixing the two different "first meetings" between them. In the first one that we see on film (but the second one chronologically!), he points out that her name comes from clemency, mercy, etc. But he's never heard of the song at that point. In the OTHER meeting, he sings a bit of the song.

OK, on to a few other things:

The Mary/Howard revelation absolutely kicked my ass, I didn't see that coming at all. That twist worked remarkably well for me.

Subtle joke: when Clem is at Joel's apartment right at the end, just after he's woken up from being wiped and she hears him listening to his taped confession about her, she asks for whiskey. He pours what little there is in the bottle, and he says (roughly) "Sorry, I thought there was more." Because Stan and Mary drank most of it while he was being wiped--HA!

One moment that really struck me was in the scene where Elijah gives her the same jewel/trinket that Joel had given her, and she says something like, "this is beautiful, guys never give me jewelery I like," just before they leave for Boston. Then, as she takes it from him, she gives him THIS LOOK that's absolutely chilling, as if she completely realizes what's going on for just one moment--and then she goes back to normal. Unbelievable stuff, one little look that was, quite possibly, the most powerful moment in the movie for me.

Really brilliant stuff, and a remarkably CINEMATIC experience. That, I would guess, is the main reason why all of us on this thread have responded so positively to it, because we love experiencing the unique ways in which movies can affect us. That even more so than the realization of the relationship theme itself, which indeed is very well done, and open to several interesting interpretations, as this thread has demonstrated. Ebert's golden rule--it's not what a movie is about that's important, but how it is about it--applies to this movie almost as much as any other one I can think of.

 

[Haggai]

Something sort of narcissistic I just thought of: some of those details I mentioned above, along with lots of other subtle things throughout the movie that others have already mentioned, lead me to realize that this movie made me feel good about myself as a movie-goer. Namely, there were lots of things that I'm sure I wouldn't have noticed before I really got into movies, or even after I became an avid film-watcher but still wasn't quite thinking about how movies do what it is they can do. I find myself noticing more things in movies, and getting more out of them, with the more experience I have watching them and thinking about them, as is surely true for many (if not most) other people on this website as well. A movie like this one rewards you for paying attention to everything you're hearing and looking at--and this is quite rare for me, but I actively felt that reward while I was watching it, not just when I was thinking about it afterwards. There's so much there that it'll undoubtedly keep providing lots of new discoveries with multiple viewings.

 

[Vickie_M]

*melt* Oh yes.

I love this movie (did I mention I love this movie?) and I love this thread. If I were half as articulate about my feelings as you all are, I could tell you how much I love this movie.

 

[Alex Spindler]

I agree with you Vickie that I don't remember Joel actually ever singing the song, although he used to know it.

The Joel at the beginning (post-erasure) knows the etymology of the name Clementine, but has no recollection of the song nor of Huckleberry Hound. This is a direct result of his erasure.

In the Joel in the middle of the film (pre-erasure), he has a pleasing memory of being washed in the sink to the tune of "Oh my darling". However, this memory was targeted to go as a byproduct of Clementine's name. I don't think Joel chooses to try to hide Clementine there, but if he had, then it would have been tracked down and removed as well.

I would assume that he has also lost his embarrasing memories of the bird and his mom walking in on his...ahem...exercises. I have to imagine that Joel's unique attempt to hide in other memories could ahve a very ruinous effect on his life. Not only would he lose memories of his current relationship, but he stood a great chance of losing other important earlier memories.

I suppose it happens to all of us sooner or later, of course. Now, where are my keys...

*Edit: Totally forgot about the stairs. Great catch Kevin

 

[Kevin Reckelhoff]

He sings it during the memory of their first meeting, when she comes to him on the stairs and borrows a piece of his chicken. The dialogue is almost identical to the dialogue in the train, except Carrey is the one singing this time.

 

[Nicholas Vargo]

I just saw the movie for a second time this past Monday, and I'm literally covinced that I have seen one of the greatest films of all time. When I first saw the film opening weekend, I thought it was a great and definately one of my favorite films of the year. On my second viewing, I founf it twice as heartbreaking and twice as good, even though it seemed a lot slower. I didn't care on that issue, as the film seemed to make a lot more sense as I was able to analyze it a lot more closely.

But one thing I did notice on both viewings is that the shot of Dr. Howard Mierwiak with the tennis racket is gone. Did anyone else notice that? It was in both trailers, but I did not remember seeing it in the final film.

 

[Vickie_M]

You're right, I was partially wrong. I saw this again last night and made note of a few things.

The Clementine song is sung 3 times during the movie:

1) At the beginning of the film, Clem sings it to Joel on the train, to try and jog his memory about Huckleberry Hound.

2) Joel's mom sings it while washing Joel (and Clem) in the sink.

3) Joel sings it to Clem when they meet on the beach stairs.

The main difference is that at the end (which is the beginning of their relationship), Joel does NOT sing the fateful words "you are lost and gone forever, dreadful sorry Clementine."


I don't know if these have been mentioned, but at the beginning, after they've met...Joel gives Clem a ride and she invites him up to her apartment...Joel is sitting there on her couch and she comes out of the kitchen with 2 drinks. She calls the drinks "2 Blue Wounds."


Also, there's a blatant error that I noticed before but forgot about. When Joel is at Rob and Carrie's apartment, before Rob shows him the card from Lacuna, Rob says something about how Joel should just grow up, and stop being "Mama Carrey's kid"

You'd think they could have removed that in Post. It didn't bother me though. It's all starting to get surreal at that point anyway.

What a wonderful film.

 

[Brad Porter]

That would be "Mama Carrie's kid". It struck me as odd at first until I remembered her name was Carrie.

Brad

 

[Vickie_M]

:b It's so obvious to me...now... :b

Thanks!

 

[Richard Kim]

I finally got a chance to see Eternal Sunshine today. I must admit that when I first saw the trailer, I was skeptical about the whole "memory wipe" concept and I didn't particularly care for Being John Malkovich and haven't seen Adaptation (tho I do plan do see it in the future), but this film just blew me away with its raw and heartfelt emotion. I guess it's because it hits so close to home for me personally (like Joel, I'm kinda introverted, and was involved with a girl very similar to Clementine, with painful results). I defintely shed a tear when Joel experiences his final memory of Clem just before it's erased. Jim Carrey gives a great performance, as an everyman caught in an extraordinary situation (very much like in The Truman Show)and Kate Winslet is radiant, blue hair and all.

I can't wait for the DVD to come out so I can catch all the things I missed in the first viewing.
This may be wishful thinking, but do you think that the DVD will have a chronological edit of the film, ala Memento?

 

[Haggai]

I seriously doubt that, since this movie is different in that it has the main character actively commenting on his memories while he experiences them. Like when he has the real "first" meeting with Clem, the scene on the stairs at the beach party. He comments on what's happening halfway through it, something like "that was so intimate" when she ate the chicken off his plate. In Memento, it was a matter of the main character being unable to remember anything from more than a few minutes ago, with the movie's storytelling structured to reflect that.

 

[Richard Kim]

Now that I think about it, I wasn't talking about the memories he's experiencing during the memory wipe procedure, I was thinking more of having the film start where the opening credits start, and have the events in the beginning of the film (Joel and Clem meeting in Montauk) occur towards the end of the film.

But you're right, it's not gonna happen, as it diminishes the disorienting feeling and emotion of the film.

 

[Haggai]

Ah, I see what you mean. But that wouldn't be as good as the way it is now, would it? I like the realization of how it all comes together, especially the "meet me in Montauk" line near the end of the memory wipe. That would have much less meaning, barely any at all, if their meeting there hadn't already been established at the beginning of the movie.

 

[Mike Broadman]

In addition to all the great stuff said in this thread, there's something else I love about the movie: somehow, in all the mind-bending plot weirdness of the flick, they managed trace and portray the feeling of a man falling for a charming, quirky attractive girl, growing to love her, and then to hate her. And that it's often the same qualities that create both feelings. Watching this movie I felt as if I were going through the same things Joel was. Clem is the kind of girl a guy can just fall head-over-heels for immediately and strongly, and as creepy as Patrick is, we can understand what he's doing.

When the movie begins and we see this incredibly adorable chick with wacky hair and ultra-casual clothes and attitude, and she's so vulnerable and naturally intimage, I just fell instantly in love. And then her shocking mood changes, vicious outbursts, and (to most men) frightening talk of marriage and children, I wanted to yell "Run, Joel, run away!" The interesting thing about people is that without one quality, you couldn't have the others.

The only thing I didn't like about the movie was her hair thing, because it felt like a narrative cheat, as the hair color pinpoints where we are in the story, much like the color filters in Traffic. Joel slamming her hair on the tape made me cheer.

A truly romantic film, because I believe that reality and honesty is more romantic than fantasy.

 

[Seth Paxton]

But Mike, I don't think that's a narrative cheat nearly as much as a character indicator. She defines herself by outward appearance, one of her fundamental flaws. She seeks her identity in how she presents herself to others rather than in who she is.

It bears a remarkable similarity to the character of Enid in Ghost World, who would appear to share several similar character qualities with Clem.