Looney Tunes Censored 11 comes to Warner Archive in 2011! (1 Viewer)

[Essanay Paul]

First let me say that Neither Blu-ray nor DVD are the "waves of the future". Blu-ray is already "old hat", the wave of the future is already here in California. Sony is demonstrating and selling their new "4K-HD" video resolution system. This basically has 4 times as many lines as Blu-ray, 4 thousand lines of resolution. You can stand right next to the 80" TV screen and think you are looking out of a window. So there is no incentive for Warner to put their cartoons out on Blu-ray other than the sale of home use discs, it is not a professional nor archival format. Second, i want to say that my favorite Looney Tunes & Merrie Melodies are those from 1948 to 1958, when Chuck Jones was at his prime. Sure Tex Avery was good in the early 1940's, but he didn't excel until he went over to MGM. Bob Clampett was the only consistent director there in the 1940's, the others still look like they are feeling their way to perfection. Yes, the animation of the 1940's is nice, more Disney like, but give me "STUPORDUCK" over "SUPER RABBIT" any day.

 

[Essanay Paul]

We must remember that the PLATINUM series was intended to be a HI-DEFINITION BLU-RAY ONLY series! It was an up grade from the old DVD releases, so Warner did not consider this a "Double Dip". And Volume One of the PLATINUM series was ONLY in Blu-ray until too many fans complained to Warner about no DVD release of the new titles. So there was no intent by Warner Home Video to double dip on DVD releases of these cartoon titles. These were to be upgrade Hi-Definition releases, just like when we went from Laserdisc (or VHS if you were collecting that format) to DVD. I never considered the DVDs a double dip of the laserdisc releases, they were upgrades. So the DVD double dip releases of the PLATINUM series are there only because fans requested them.

 

[TravisR]

First let me say that Neither Blu-ray nor DVD are the "waves of the future". Blu-ray is already "old hat", the wave of the future is already here in California. Sony is demonstrating and selling their new "4K-HD" video resolution system. This basically has 4 times as many lines as Blu-ray, 4 thousand lines of resolution. You can stand right next to the 80" TV screen and think you are looking out of a window.

I don't know what California has to do with anything but 4K TVs are so expensive that they might as well not even exist. 4K TVs are currently going for $25,000 and while prices will certainly drop, they need to drop in cost by more than 95% to become anywhere near a reality for most people. How long until it takes to drop that much? 10 or 15 years? Until they're under $1,000, there will be little in the way of movies available in 4K because the numbers of what they would sell will be miniscule.

 

[tophat]

First let me say that Neither Blu-ray nor DVD are the "waves of the future". Blu-ray is already "old hat", the wave of the future is already here in California. Sony is demonstrating and selling their new "4K-HD" video resolution system. This basically has 4 times as many lines as Blu-ray, 4 thousand lines of resolution. You can stand right next to the 80" TV screen and think you are looking out of a window. So there is no incentive for Warner to put their cartoons out on Blu-ray other than the sale of home use discs, it is not a professional nor archival format. Second, i want to say that my favorite Looney Tunes & Merrie Melodies are those from 1948 to 1958, when Chuck Jones was at his prime. Sure Tex Avery was good in the early 1940's, but he didn't excel until he went over to MGM. Bob Clampett was the only consistent director there in the 1940's, the others still look like they are feeling their way to perfection. Yes, the animation of the 1940's is nice, more Disney like, but give me "STUPORDUCK" over "SUPER RABBIT" any day.

LOL you realize the 4k AS DONE NOW USES THE SAME COMPRESSION AS REGULAR HDTV... that being said whenever they show 4k all you are really seeing is what you would see IF you could watch uncompressed 1080p video, when 4k actually has a broadcast standard, then it will look different.

 

[Ruz-El]

Originally Posted by Essanay Paul
First let me say that Neither Blu-ray nor DVD are the "waves of the future". Blu-ray is already "old hat", the wave of the future is already here in California. Sony is demonstrating and selling their new "4K-HD" video resolution system. This basically has 4 times as many lines as Blu-ray, 4 thousand lines of resolution. You can stand right next to the 80" TV screen and think you are looking out of a window.

If we're talking the "waves of the future" you have to keep in mind that there is no current physical format that can support uncompressed 4K (the data size is in the realm of terabites). Yes, compressed 4K can look better then Blu, but it's still a compromise instead of the new format until some kind of physical object comes out that can hold the uncompressed, true files.
So what you're really discussing is streaming. So LT cartoons (in this case) would be a license you pay in order to have the privilege to stream them to your 4K set. Which no collector is going to pay for/buy since it will never be proper ownership. Licensed Streamed/Digital material can always be revoked with no warning by the copyright holders. Which is why the added value Ultravox or whatever the program is that included with so many Blurays for sale at retail have an expire date instead of being something you can actually own. I really doubt that Warner's is going to see value in hosting the material on servers so the "wave of the future" in this case is the death of the idea of being able to own a complete set of LT/MM cartoons.
I'd argue that the only hope to have all these toons is via bluray/SD-DVD purchases through either retail or the archives. If it doesn't happen in the next few years, it wont happen at all. Especially in light of big box stores like HMV biting the dust.

 

[Kevin Martinez]

We must remember that the PLATINUM series was intended to be a HI-DEFINITION BLU-RAY ONLY series! It was an up grade from the old DVD releases, so Warner did not consider this a "Double Dip". And Volume One of the PLATINUM series was ONLY in Blu-ray until too many fans complained to Warner about no DVD release of the new titles. So there was no intent by Warner Home Video to double dip on DVD releases of these cartoon titles. These were to be upgrade Hi-Definition releases, just like when we went from Laserdisc (or VHS if you were collecting that format) to DVD. I never considered the DVDs a double dip of the laserdisc releases, they were upgrades. So the DVD double dip releases of the PLATINUM series are there only because fans requested them.

The only reason DVD releases of Platinum V1 were demanded was because a scant handful of new-to-DVD cartoons were included, as well as another handful that were cropped into 16:9 for the initial wave of Super Stars DVDs. If those two things weren't the case, no one would have been clamoring for a dual release. Laerdisc to DVD is a HUUGGGGEEEEE leap, since the cartoons were specially restored for the format. There's some healthy disagreement as to how future releases should be carried out (chronological or not), but I think we can all agree that newly restored cartoons for DVD and Blu-Ray upgrades for the existing restorations should be kept separate.

 

[Kevin Martinez]

There will be a Volume 3 this year, but Volume 4 and onward are in jeopardy unless Volume 3 sells well.

 

[Essanay Paul]

At the risk of sounding cynical, we are confusing Hollywood's interest in SELLING us something with their interest in having us OWN something. They really want to keep selling us something. And every time a new format comes out, they want to sell it to us again. And Hollywood would just love to sell us a streaming service to send us 4KHD cartoons on demand as long as we subscribe. And sadly for collectors like us, that is what the general public wants. Poor DVD sales have proven that the public is tired of owning copies of films they often just watch once. My younger nephews prefer to live a life free from the clutter of physical libraries. They want video streaming and digital books. The future is not bright for DVD collecting, outside of the MOD DVD-Rs from The Warner Archive. Warner is even 'retiring' old DVD releases to the MOD Warner Archive when their pressed DVD stock runs out. The Peanuts Charlie Brown & Snoopy show has gone over to the Archive as well as "Bugs Bunny Superstar".

 

[BobO'Link]

We must remember that the PLATINUM series was intended to be a HI-DEFINITION BLU-RAY ONLY series! It was an up grade from the old DVD releases, so Warner did not consider this a "Double Dip".

Warner may not consider these to be "Double Dips" but I, and many other collectors/fans, do! It's quite arrogant to believe I should automatically "upgrade" my DVD collection to BR just because something gets a re-release on the format. Make it *all* new to "DVD" toons on sets, re-release the GC sets on BR, and let *me* decide which I want. I'd be willing to bet the re-released GC on BR would be poor sellers and the sets of *all* new toons would sell well.

 

[Ruz-El]

This "volume 4 is in jeopardy depending on volume 3 sales" vibes of extortion to me. How about a commitment to get all the loony tunes to the customers in some format? It's all ready a complete schmoz between DVD and bluray, just commit to getting the toons out PERIOD and many of us will be happy.

 

[Essanay Paul]

This "volume 4 is in jeopardy depending on volume 3 sales" vibes of extortion to me. How about a commitment to get all the loony tunes to the customers in some format? It's all ready a complete schmoz between DVD and bluray, just commit to getting the toons out PERIOD and many of us will be happy. 

First off this is a BUSINESS, not a hobby for Warner Brothers. It is not extortion, but just good business sense. Why continue to release something if it is not selling well? Natural business sense is that the sales of Volume 3 will always determine IF volume 4 will come out. Plane and simple. IF the sales of the LOONEY TUNES GOLDEN COLLECTIONS had remained good, that series was going to continue. We are incorrectly thinking that it is the double-dipping that is killing off sales when the original GOLDEN COLLECTIONS sales were dropping off. There was no double-dipping there, the sales were just dropping low enough to cancel the series. Warner has no other reason to continue releasing Looney Tunes DVDs if they are not selling. They owe the fans nothing if the fans are not continuing to buy.

 

[Kevin Martinez]

But obviously, WB still feels that restoring Looney Tunes for DVD is worthwhile, hence the ongoing Super Stars sets which are selling well enough to continue. If you're not an insider on these discs, Paul, you should probably not act like you know every last detail about what goes on with these sets.

 

[Theodore J. Mooney]

Maybe part of the reason why the sales for the Golden Collections dropped was due to ever-increasing amount of the obscure, black & white cartoon shorts on the later installments of the series. The general public probably weren't interested in those and were not willing to fork over sixty bucks for a set that had only a handful of shorts of the familiar Looney Tunes. So in a way, Warner Bros did themselves no favors at all. Just look at the latest release of the Mouse Chronicles set that highlighted Sniffles the mouse. That's another case of releasing obscure cartoons only to have it bomb in front of their faces. .

 

[Kevin Martinez]

Also, the first set came out at a time when DVD was relatively new and restored sets of archival material were rare. By 2007-08, HUNDEREDS of DVD's were coming out, and releases like the Golden Collections were avalanched in the pre-Christmas rush. IF WB executives don't understand factors like those, then they should have their business and marketing degrees revoked. Sniffles wouldn't have bombed so spectacularly had he been paired with Bugs or Pepe Le Pew, or the Road Runner or a character Chuck Jones is actually known for.

 

[Mark Y]

First off this is a BUSINESS, not a hobby for Warner Brothers. It is not extortion, but just good business sense. Why continue to release something if it is not selling well? Natural business sense is that the sales of Volume 3 will always determine IF volume 4 will come out. Plane and simple. IF the sales of the LOONEY TUNES GOLDEN COLLECTIONS had remained good, that series was going to continue. We are incorrectly thinking that it is the double-dipping that is killing off sales when the original GOLDEN COLLECTIONS sales were dropping off. There was no double-dipping there, the sales were just dropping low enough to cancel the series. Warner has no other reason to continue releasing Looney Tunes DVDs if they are not selling. They owe the fans nothing if the fans are not continuing to buy.

A little history: Here's what happened with the Golden Collections. That series launched in 2003 (10 years ago). At the time we were told it was an experiment to see how the Warner Bros. cartoons would sell if marketed to collectors (i.e., not through the family entertainment division). At the time, the word was if the first one didn't do well, then they wouldn't continue. WB had begun a long-term project restoring the cartoons. Especially the pre-1948 former a.a.p. titles which had reverted to Warner Bros. when they bought out Turner. Those 300 plus cartoons could be restored for the first time, since Warner had retained the original color separations all along. Supposedly, all releases from 1957 on had originated from 16mm film sources. At the same time, some cartoons already had been released on DVD in Japan, while others were being re-released to theatres. This influenced the selection of cartoons on the first Golden Collections, and these are two more reasons why they literally could not do chronological or comprehensive character sets from the beginning. Restoring the cartoons is still ongoing. The first four Golden Collections all had the first disc dedicated to Bugs Bunny. Bugs' cartoons also appeared throughout the sets on other discs. The first volume was (1) Bugs Bunny, (2) Daffy Duck and Porky Pig, and (3 and 4) "Looney Tunes All Stars," including all three again, alongside other characters. Other characters such as Tweety & Sylvester and the Road Runner were featured on future volumes, and they did some themed discs -- Hollywood caricatures, Bob Clampett, musical cartoons, fairy tales, etc. But I was just reviewing the six volumes the other day and realized why they stopped there. After four volumes leading off with a Bugs Bunny disc, the first DVD of Volume 5 was "Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck." Then on Volume 6, "Looney Tunes All-Stars." Why? Because Bugs Bunny is their starring character, and they basically had shot their load of his cartoons by then. They were able to do the Bugs Super Stars disc, but then they put out those ridiculous DVDs with three double-dip cartoons. Though there is a good amount of Bugs left, for all I know they could still need to be restored. Poor planning over the long haul, maybe. Now for someone like me, if they had kept going and released a seventh volume with a bunch of black and white Porky Pigs, Rudy Larriva Road Runners and Robert McKimson one-shots, and maybe a disc of Tweety and Sylvester, I would have bought it, because I want them all. It did tick me off to see the Platinum Blu-Rays come out mostly recycling content from the Golden Collections. But take a look at what they're doing. On the first Platinum volume, they included a compendium of the complete Marvin the Martian, Tasmanian Devil, Witch Hazel, Ralph Phillips and a near-complete Marc Antony. The second volume does the same for lesser-known characters like Beaky Buzzard and Cecil the Turtle. The Pepe Le Pew Super Stars DVD contains his complete filmography. The upcoming Sylvester disc will cover the complete Hippety Hopper and Sylvester Jr. Mouse Chronicles has the complete Sniffles and Hubie & Bertie. See a pattern here? It's not perfect and there is a lot of room for improvement, but I don't think they're sitting around specifically trying to come up with ways to screw the hardcore fans. The Golden Collections are out of print now too, right?

 

[notquite]

First off this is a BUSINESS, not a hobby for Warner Brothers. It is not extortion, but just good business sense. Why continue to release something if it is not selling well? Natural business sense is that the sales of Volume 3 will always determine IF volume 4 will come out. Plane and simple. IF the sales of the LOONEY TUNES GOLDEN COLLECTIONS had remained good, that series was going to continue. We are incorrectly thinking that it is the double-dipping that is killing off sales when the original GOLDEN COLLECTIONS sales were dropping off. There was no double-dipping there, the sales were just dropping low enough to cancel the series. Warner has no other reason to continue releasing Looney Tunes DVDs if they are not selling. The y owe the fans nothing if the fans are not continuing to buy.

YES IT IS A HOBBY FOR THEM, BECAUSE IF THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING AT HONEST MARKETING, THESE WOULD FLY OFF THE SHELF - IF THEY WOULD STOP RE-RELEASING UN-REMASTERED AND STOP THE DOUBLE DIPS.... EXAMPLE - YOU HAVE A DISPLAY OF COKE IN GLASS BOTTLES JUST LIKE MANY DRANK WHEN THEY WERE KIDS - NOT MANY SALES -- HOWEVER WHEN I CONVINCED THE STORE MANAGER TO PUT UP A SIGN, SAYING - THIS IS THE REAL THING, REAL CANE SUGAR COKE JUST LIKE YOU HAD WHEN YOU WERE A KID, THEY FLEW OFF THE SHELF - SIMPLE HONEST MARKETING FOR LOONEY TUNES, IF THEIT MARKETING WOULD APPEAL TO THE BASE INSTEAD OF THE FRINGES THEY WOULD HAVE BETTER SALES TOO.

 

[notquite]

Also, the first set came out at a time when DVD was relatively new and restored sets of archival material were rare. By 2007-08, HUNDEREDS of DVD's were coming out, and releases like the Golden Collections were avalanched in the pre-Christmas rush. IF WB executives don't understand factors like those, then they should have their business and marketing degrees revoked. Sniffles wouldn't have bombed so spectacularly had he been paired with Bugs or Pepe Le Pew, or the Road Runner or a character Chuck Jones is actually known for.

B I N G O Moderator's Note: Part of text deleted for needless name-calling. -MF

 

[BobO'Link]

Maybe part of the reason why the sales for the Golden Collections dropped was due to ever-increasing amount of the obscure, black & white cartoon shorts on the later installments of the series.

That pretty much echoes my feelings about those sets. While I like having the B/W cartoons I was becoming annoyed by the seemingly increasing amount of those and other "obscure" cartoons on each collection, especially when characters like Foghorn Leghorn, Pepe Le Pew, and others were given few spots. I've read speculation that had those B/W and obscure cartoons not been released when they were they would have never seen a release. Maybe so, but they seem to have been major contributors to the declining sales figures. Couple that with entire disks devoted to cartoons of a single character, no matter *how* popular, and you have sets that won't sell to anyone but completists and collectors.

 

[Theodore J. Mooney]

A little history: Here's what happened with the Golden Collections. That series launched in 2003 (10 years ago). At the time we were told it was an experiment to see how the Warner Bros. cartoons would sell if marketed to collectors (i.e., not through the family entertainment division). At the time, the word was if the first one didn't do well, then they wouldn't continue. WB had begun a long-term project restoring the cartoons. Especially the pre-1948 former a.a.p. titles which had reverted to Warner Bros. when they bought out Turner. Those 300 plus cartoons could be restored for the first time, since Warner had retained the original color separations all along. Supposedly, all releases from 1957 on had originated from 16mm film sources. At the same time, some cartoons already had been released on DVD in Japan, while others were being re-released to theatres. This influenced the selection of cartoons on the first Golden Collections, and these are two more reasons why they literally could not do chronological or comprehensive character sets from the beginning. Restoring the cartoons is still ongoing. The first four Golden Collections all had the first disc dedicated to Bugs Bunny. Bugs' cartoons also appeared throughout the sets on other discs. The first volume was (1) Bugs Bunny, (2) Daffy Duck and Porky Pig, and (3 and 4) "Looney Tunes All Stars," including all three again, alongside other characters. Other characters such as Tweety & Sylvester and the Road Runner were featured on future volumes, and they did some themed discs -- Hollywood caricatures, Bob Clampett, musical cartoons, fairy tales, etc. But I was just reviewing the six volumes the other day and realized why they stopped there. After four volumes leading off with a Bugs Bunny disc, the first DVD of Volume 5 was "Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck." Then on Volume 6, "Looney Tunes All-Stars." Why? Because Bugs Bunny is their starring character, and they basically had shot their load of his cartoons by then. They were able to do the Bugs Super Stars disc, but then they put out those ridiculous DVDs with three double-dip cartoons. Though there is a good amount of Bugs left, for all I know they could still need to be restored. Poor planning over the long haul, maybe. Now for someone like me, if they had kept going and released a seventh volume with a bunch of black and white Porky Pigs, Rudy Larriva Road Runners and Robert McKimson one-shots, and maybe a disc of Tweety and Sylvester, I would have bought it, because I want them all. It did tick me off to see the Platinum Blu-Rays come out mostly recycling content from the Golden Collections. But take a look at what they're doing. On the first Platinum volume, they included a compendium of the complete Marvin the Martian, Tasmanian Devil, Witch Hazel, Ralph Phillips and a near-complete Marc Antony. The second volume does the same for lesser-known characters like Beaky Buzzard and Cecil the Turtle. The Pepe Le Pew Super Stars DVD contains his complete filmography. The upcoming Sylvester disc will cover the complete Hippety Hopper and Sylvester Jr. Mouse Chronicles has the complete Sniffles and Hubie & Bertie. See a pattern here? It's not perfect and there is a lot of room for improvement, but I don't think they're sitting around specifically trying to come up with ways to screw the hardcore fans. The Golden Collections are out of print now too, right?

I've noticed that pattern too and I appreciate that greatly. What I don't get ... is their choice of releasing cartoons on the Platinum series that can already be found on the Golden Collection series. What is the point of that? I don't think the average consumer wants to purchase the same batch of cartoons over and over again. That is redundant and not necessary. What they should do for future volumes of the Platium series is to continue the pattern they started in volume one but have the majority of the cartoons be NEW-to-DVD shorts. They should do a complete Ralph and Sam, complete Goofy Gophers, complete Bugs Bunny and Wilie E. Coyote, complete Rocky and Mugsy, complete Hubie and Bertie, complete Cool Cat, complete Merlin the Magic Mouse, complete Henry Hawk, complete Prissy, complete Honey-Mousers, complete Daffy Duck & Barnyard Dawg, complete Charles M. Wolf, complete Charlie (the dog), ect. while finishing the runs of the more popular Looney Tunes characters such as Bugs Bunny, Road Runner & Wilie E. Coyote, Tweety, Sylvester, Foghorn Leghorn, Daffy Duck, Speedy Gonzales, Elmer Fudd, ect. .

 

[DeWilson]

On a related note, has anyone assembled a list of WB Cartoons,1933-1963 that have never been on DVD?