Looney Tunes Censored 11 comes to Warner Archive in 2011! (1 Viewer)

[ChrisALM]

Originally Posted by Traveling Matt
I don't know that it's double dips so much as oversaturation. The mass retail base WHV insists on targeting likely doesn't know which specific cartoons they bought ten years ago. My guess is most people have a general awareness of which cartoons are the greats, and they know they already have them on the Golden Collections; the lack of interest in said cartoons for Blu would seem a natural result.
It would be interesting to see how an online model, such as I propose, would be handled. My instinct is to say it's far too late to try something different now, regardless of target audience, as dancing around 1/3 of the catalog would be very haphazard for a "chronological" effort.

I believe there is an oversaturation of LT on the market - but WB seems to think that is the way to go. Meanwhile, for collectors, or anyone who would like a complete LT set, there is nothing available. A complete chronological release would make all of the cartoons available, but I'm flexible, some of the suggestions offered here would work for me. It is fascinating to watch animation progress, as we were able to do with the Walt Disney Treasures sets. So, to me, a chronological release has a certain appeal beyond just the release of the cartoons.
Currently, no one knows if the Platinum Collections will continue to Volume 3, or beyond; no one knows what selections will make it to Volume 3; no one knows if WB will start another release configuration specifically aimed at collectors.
As the Golden Collections were released, I scooped them up. Then, after Volume 6, WB ended the line. The way the Platinum Collections are going, they may not make it that far. Where will that leave us? I have grown weary of trying to keep track of everything WB is doing with the LT's, especially when the top of the line, The Platinum Collections, seem to be heading in no particular direction.
When WB decides to address the concerns of collectors and provide a release that we can appreciate, I will be more than happy to support the effort.

 

[Ruz-El]

I agree wholeheartedly. To those of us trying, it's a real schmoz trying to acquire a complete collection. I have the Golden Collections, the Platinum collections, the mouse chonicles, and the superstars sets that continue to come out on DVD despite the switch to bluray with the Platinum and Mouse sets. Who knows what well be repeated elsewhere and in what quality? It's confusing as all hell for me, the buyer, and there is absolutely nothing coming from Warners as far as information on these sets is concerned and the program as a whole. All we get are releases to buy. And now it sounds like even that will stop if they are considering canceling the Platinum sets. :S

 

[JoeDoakes]

It's both. In the years since the Golden Collections, there have been Platinum Collections, a Showcase collection, Super Stars DVD's, Essential Bugs and Daffy sets, and miscellanea like Mouse Chronicles and those Best of Bugs Bunny/Looney Tunes Unleashed DVD's. And on top of that, the Golden and Spotlight collections are still in print (the Spotlights, in fact, are still in stock at every Wal-Mart I've checked). So you've got a ton of different configurations of Warner cartoons, some of which "claim" to be aimed at collectors but every last one is in fact ultimately aimed at the "casual" buyers, and ALL of which regurgitate material from the Golden Collections in various quantities..Warner's post-GC strategy has been so thoughtless and hapless that its no wonder sales are down across the board.

Overall, its hard to think of a major franchise that's been handled poorer than the Looney Tunes, what with poorly considered reboots like Looney Tunes Unleashed. I think that WB still makes some money from merchidising, but it's easier to find new Three Stooges merchandise than that for the Looney Tunes. I have bought some stuff for holiday decorating and for the kids off ebay, but most of it was made in the 1990s. Meanwhile, Mickey Mouse, etc. merchandise, toys and such is everywhere. WB should give a lot more thought to what they are doing or they will find that one of their major assets has lost its value.

 

[Mark Y]

As was mentioned earlier --- Tom & Jerry are being released chronologically. Droopy was released chronologically. Popeye is in the process of being released chronologically. The problem with the Warner Bros. cartoons (including both the Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies series) is they represent virtually the entire output of the studio. So it's not like Tom & Jerry or Droopy. it would be like trying to release Tom & Jerry, Droopy, Barney Bear, the Captain and the Kids, Happy Harmonies, various Chuck Jones MGM cartoons, and on and on and on, all in one series of DVD volumes. What they COULD do (and maybe one day they will) is to maybe go the Disney Treasures route and do the chronological Bugs Bunny, Porky Pig, Daffy Duck, Road Runner, Foghorn Leghorn, Wolf and Sheepdog, Beaky Buzzard, Bosko, Buddy, Tweety and Sylvester together, Tweety and Sylvester separately, etc. etc. Well, you see the problem... But even if they did do that, there are more problems. Where would "Rabbit Fire" go -- on a Bugs Bunny collection, a Daffy Duck collection or an Elmer Fudd collection? And then do you do "Elmer Fudd and Bugs Bunny," "Elmer Fudd and Daffy Duck," "Elmer Fudd and Sylvester," "Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck," etc. etc. There would be no way to do comprehensive characters sets like that without massive double-dipping. And even if they could do comprehensive character sets, then that leaves an awful lot of one-shots and 1930s musical cartoons. Maybe do them by director? I agree with what some have said regarding the Platinum BluRay sets. I mean seriously, I haven't done a mathematical breakdown, but it wouldn't surprise me if 80 to 90% of the cartoons on these sets were repeated from the Golden Collections. Yeah, it's a different format, but then what happens five years down the road when the next new format replaces BluRay, and then the next one after that? I haven't broken down and taken the bait on these yet. I did get "Mouse Chronicles" and all the Super Stars containing new-to-DVD titles. At this point though, the average person who isn't a collector and just wants "One Froggy Evening," "Duck Dodgers," etc. can go to Target or Wal-Mart and pick up a set or two and call it done. Hence the endless recycling and wrapping the same stuff in a new box. Which is what they did during the whole Beta, VHS and Laserdisc eras as well. If the studio hadn't made over a thousand cartoons, it would have been easier...also, WB buying out Turner was kind of a double-edged sword. We got wonderful remastered versions of the pre-1948s which blow away anything ever released before on those titles. But when Turner only had 300 something Warner Bros. cartoons to work with, they got ALMOST all of them out on Laserdisc -- and the reason it was "ALMOST" is referenced in the title of this thread. I don't think there is a simple answer.

 

[Kevin Martinez]

I think the real, real heart of the problem is the Family Entertainment division. The Golden Collection series was George Feltenstein's "baby", and were handled by the live-action people with the utmost of care. Apparently, since the demise of the Golden Collections, the Looney Tunes are now being handled by the same group that so bungled up Tom and Jerry in the Spotlight Collection days, with Feltenstein having little or no say in how releases are handled now. I have no doubt that if Feltenstein had the kind of charge over the cartoons he did in the GC days, a way would've been found to start chronological releases at, say, 1947 (and leave the lesser B/W days for the Archive), or to do a Blu-Ray set that wouldn't force collectors to buy double-dip cartoons A-R just to get unreleased-on-DVD cartoon X, or even just do a smaller, cheaper successor to the Golden Collections. But because the Family Division has the keys, we've seen post-GC Looney Tunes discs screwed up in every way imaginable; a huge glut of releases, cartoons misguidedly cropped in widescreen, a decline in the quality of the restoration itself, mind-boggling release choices like Mouse Chronicles (chronological sets won't sell, but a whole set of SNIFFLES will?), 15-buck DVDs with less than an hour of content, and double dips out the wazoo.

 

[Theodore J. Mooney]

I think the real, real heart of the problem is the Family Entertainment division. But because the Family Division has the keys, we've seen post-GC Looney Tunes discs screwed up in every way imaginable; a huge glut of releases, cartoons misguidedly cropped in widescreen, a decline in the quality of the restoration itself, mind-boggling release choices like Mouse Chronicles (chronological sets won't sell, but a whole set of SNIFFLES will?), 15-buck DVDs with less than an hour of content, and double dips out the wazoo.

The logic behind the pricing is confusing for sure. The DVD version of the Blue-Ray Platinum collection for both volumes are retailed at $19.99 and each contain 50 cartoons. The various Super Stars DVDs are priced at $14.99 with 20 or less cartoons. Which is the better buy? Clearly it is the set that has the most cartoons which requires the consumer to spend an extra $5. I think the average consumer would be more willing to fork up the extra five bucks to get more cartoons than have to pay more out of their pocket for less cartoons. .

 

[Traveling Matt]

A complete chronological release would make all of the cartoons available, but I'm flexible, some of the suggestions offered here would work for me. It is fascinating to watch animation progress, as we were able to do with the Walt Disney Treasures sets. So, to me, a chronological release has a certain appeal beyond just the release of the cartoons.

Perhaps, but what about the 360 Golden Collection cartoons? That's more than one-third of the catalog already released properly. I'm not buying that again.

Currently, no one knows if the Platinum Collections will continue to Volume 3...

Jerry Beck confirmed Volume 3 is coming. Sales would have to be really abysmal for that series to not make it a bit further, since very little work is required.

When WB decides to address the concerns of collectors and provide a release that we can appreciate, I will be more than happy to support the effort.

Same here. No LT release has touched my shelf since Golden Volume 6, as I wait...

 

[Theodore J. Mooney]

Perhaps, but what about the 360 Golden Collection cartoons? That's more than one-third of the catalog already released properly. I'm not buying that again.

It is bad enough that some of those Golden Collection shorts have been released multiple times already. The Platinum Collection series is more or less a good example of this ... putting out the same stuff that is already available on the Golden Collection series. Then there's the Tweety & Sylvester Superstars DVD set ... more of the same that is already available to the public. That was clearly a missed opportunity to put out some NEW MATERIAL. Talk about mind-boggling. And it's no wonder why consumers are weary when it comes to purchasing a new Looney Tunes set. It is like the saying, "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me". Well, the consumers got fooled when it was said that there will be absolute NO double dipping. That turned out to be not true. And it's not going to help any if the same already-available shorts continue to be re-released through current and future compilations/volumes (at the expense of putting out new shorts) as that will likely further erode or even dimish the consumer's trust.

Jerry Beck confirmed Volume 3 is coming. Sales would have to be really abysmal for that series to not make it a bit further, since very little work is required.

I recall reading that there will be a volume 3 of the Platinum Collection series. Beck even confirmed it when he was a guest on Stu's radio show. And he did hint that there will be a Bugs Bunny cartoon that features a gorilla/monkey on this volume. .

 

[Pooch]

Hi,

No they aren't. What they are actually doing is packaging cartoons that were already on the Golden Collections with new-to-dic shorts, so if you want any of those new cartoons, you have to buy DVD's where the majority of cartoons are those you already have.

I was referring solely to the Warner's Blu-Ray Looney Tunes Platinum Collection Sets. Apologies, for not making that clearer.

Whether they're chronological or not, 100% new-to-DVD collections HAVE to be the wave of the future. As the poor sales of Platinum V2. have shown, people have gotten sick of double dips REALLY fast.

No, they don't HAVE to be anything of the sort! DVD is NOT the wave of the future. Blu-Ray is! As far as I know - at least in the UK and Europe - most Looney Tunes fans want them to be released on Blu-Ray, not DVD. The poor sales of Volume 2 of the Platinum Collection is down to people being too anal about how they think Warners should release their product, rather than actually thinking a bit more sensibly! (More on that in a moment!) Okay, I'm going to stick my neck out here, and make a potentially ever-so-slightly inflammatory post, solely in relation to the Warners Looney Tunes releases and nothing else. If you want to hear my thoughts on the Popeye releases, I'm afraid this post will not be your best port of call, as I know nothing about them, so will decline to comment on them. For everyone else, please read on... Firstly, when it comes to double-dipping, as I've said in a previous post, NO ONE is forcing you to double-dip! So please, can we stop blaming the Mighty Giant Corporate Behemoth for forcing you at gun-point to hand-over your hard-earned cash or your credit card details to a retailer/e-tailer, because no one is forcing you to do anything. We are all free-thinking adults here, so lets get a grip, ok? We all double-dipped when we went from Betamax to VHS, from VHS to DVD, and from DVD to Blu-Ray. This stuff happens all of the time. Don't like it? Then here's the solution - don't buy new things! You'll not be able to get everything you want, but if you don't like the way in which a company releases something, then sometimes you will have to just make do without, as much as that may gaul and pain you. Secondly, as has already been amply demonstrated in this thread alone, let alone across the entireity of the Internet, whatever and however Warners release the Looney Tunes sets, there's going to be someone, somewhere who doesn't want it released in that particular manner. Thirdly, Warners will make their decisions, that are the best, most commercially-viable decision, for them! Not for you, the hardcore Looney Tunes Collector. Not for you, the occasional-DVD-animations purchaser. Not for you, the parents of cartoon-loving kids. What the fans want, will be only vaguely considered by Warners, when it comes to releasing any future Looney Tunes sets. So, as much as I agree with many of you, for the most part, this is all out of our control. Warners will do whatever Warners wants to do, and there's little you or I can do about that - no matter how strongly we feel, and no matter how well-intentioned we all may be. With that all said-and-done, I'm going to assume that no one in this thread works for (or has relatives, friends or family) that works for Warners. As such, and providing that is the case, then none of us can control what Warner's does. We can try and influence them, but ultimately, the buck stops with whatever Warners choose to decide. If fans decide not to buy future releases, rather than the desired or intended effect being to get Warners to release the Looney Tunes works in a different fashion, Warners may simply decide "Oh, well, it looks like no one wants to buy the Looney Tunes stuff anymore, so we'll stop releasing them in full!" That is clearly what we don't want to happen! In an ideal world the Looney Tunes material would be released in multiple fashions, to try and please everyone: - in strict chronological order - in cut and uncut versions - in 4:3 and original aspect ratio formats - themed by animator - themed by character - mixed together, as they currently do, blending older titles with well-loved classics That way, everyone would (or should) be happy. But that's never going to happen. So lets be realistic about what we might be able to get Warners to do. Personally, as releasing the sets chronologically (by the year the animations were made or released) isn't going to work for most of you, and seeing as releasing the sets themed by animator or character can't work either (as there are too many animations that include more than one character, or involved more than one animator/director), then the only realistically viable option that remains, is to release them as Warner's currently are: mixing together classics, with the lesser, well-known sets, in a semi-random fashion, in an order that tries to please most of the people, most of the time. This fashion, is also the one that is probably the one that is most commercially viable for Warners too. Therefore, as long as all of the Looney Tunes titles get released eventually, and preferably in remastered editions on Blu-Ray, then I would like to think that most of us in this thread, will be predominantly more happy than sad with that. Don't forget, most of these Looney Tunes animations deserve to be restored, before they are lost. More-to-the-point, they need to be restored! Restoration takes time and money. The money will be partly come from sales of previous DVD or Blu-ray sales, and some will be investment from Warners themselves, as protection to preserve their product for future generation, that will potentially make them millions (or possibly even billions) if done right! With any long-running series, there'll always be someone who doesn't like the manner in which you release it, so the only viable format - at least in the world of the Looney Tunes animations - is to release them mixed together. That way, collectors eventually get all of the animations they want. The lesser-fans can cherry-pick the volumes that best suits them, depending on which characters or shorts they want, and the people who don't want to see the more adult-themed or historically important (but potentially inflammatory or politically incorrect shorts) can avoid these releases, and stick to one of the many, older DVD sets that currently exist. There is no way on earth, that Warner's can please all of us, all of the time. There is no way on earth, that Warner's could commercially release the Looney Tunes titles chronologically, as a lot of the early-stuff simply won't sell in high enough numbers to justify continuing releasing subsequent volumes, unless they did so as loss-making releases (which would be commerical suicide)! Likewise, they can't release the shorts by animator, director, writer or character, as - once again - the lesser-known or less-loved volumes won't sell. At least, the current thinking seems to be the best, and most realistic option for everyone. It's not as if the Looney Tunes need to be seen in chronological order, except to see how the characters and animtions develop in a technical format. For 99.9 % of the animations, they stand alone, and as such, can be viewed in any order, without any prior knowledge of the characters or the series itself. As long as Warners do release all of the cartoons, then the hardcore fans amongst you can watch them in whatever order you prefer: themed by character, themed by director, or even, in chronologically. Ok, here endeth my post, and apologies once more, if it sounds rude or abrupt, for that is not how it is meant. Thank You for reading. Pooch

 

[Kevin Martinez]

TL;DR. or rather had to skim. The bottom line is: Warner is obviously doing something wrong. Mouse Chronicles flopped and the Platinum Collection series is already in danger of cancellation with the second set.

 

[Traveling Matt]

It is certainly true no one is forced to double dip. If you only own the Golden Collections and nothing else (Spotlights, Super Stars, Platinums), then you have avoided double dipping even a single cartoon. All you needed to do was your homework. This is why any true collector's follow-up series would have to cleanly pick up where Golden Volume 6 left off.

 

[Traveling Matt]

No, they don't HAVE to be anything of the sort! DVD is NOT the wave of the future. Blu-Ray is!

DVD may not be the wave of the future, but it's the format on which 360+ cartoons have already been released. I'm not switching now when the series couldn't even be finished first on DVD, and looks even more unlikely to do so on Blu. That doesn't make sense. Future restorations should be in HD, of course, but a collector's series should be focued on DVD. As I said earlier, it's far too late to try something different now. Additionally, it seems it isn't only collectors who want DVDs. The first Platinum was originally Blu only, but supposedly a DVD volume was quickly issued due to consumer complaints. A decision to release all future Platinums on DVD, as well as Blu, also resulted from that backlash. Which might serve as further proof that average consumers really don't remember which cartoons they already bought on DVD ten years ago!

 

[BobO'Link]

It is certainly true no one is forced to double dip. If you only own the Golden Collections and nothing else (Spotlights, Super Stars, Platinums), then you have avoided double dipping even a single cartoon. All you needed to do was your homework. This is why any true collector's follow-up series would have to cleanly pick up where Golden Volume 6 left off.

Exactly. That is the *sole* reason I've not made any purchases beyond the GC sets other than the Foghorn Leghorn release (and I felt insulted that all his appearances were not on that single disk). It seems to me at this point that the casual market is oversaturated with most people having all the LT they want leaving completests and collectors as the primary market. From my limited observations that, among a few cartoon selection issues in the collections, is why sales began to drop.

 

[Essanay Paul]

Since Warner Brothers already created Hi-Def transfers for their Golden Collections DVDs, it is a no brainer to re-release them on Blu-ray and make some more money to help finance the restoration of more cartoons. While ideally Warner should have done direct re-releases of the Golden Collections to Blu-ray, they felt that fewer fans would have bothered to re-buy them if they were exact re-releases. Thus they have been re-mixed with new cartoons not on the old Golden Collection DVDs to attract more sales. Today's economy and slow home video sales do not encourage full brand new sets on Blu-ray. Eventually all of the cartoons on the Golden Collections could come out on Blu-ray IF the sales of the Blu-rays warrant it. Sales of Volume 2 have not been ecstatic, which means less money to continue with the restorations.

 

[Mark Y]

One other issue is that a lot of the releases, including the Golden Collections, don't list the cartoons included anywhere on the outer package. (Though the Super Stars do.) Collectors who are passionate enough to follow news of the upcoming releases on the internet will be up to speed on what's coming out, but the average consumer (i.e. their target audience) won't be. Remember all the screaming and torch-carrying that went on when the first Golden Collection came out and horrors, "One Froggy Evening" and "What's Opera Doc" weren't on it?

 

[JoeDoakes]

I have no doubt that if Feltenstein had the kind of charge over the cartoons he did in the GC days, a way would've been found to start chronological releases at, say, 1947 (and leave the lesser B/W days for the Archive), or to do a Blu-Ray set that wouldn't force collectors to buy double-dip cartoons A-R just to get unreleased-on-DVD cartoon X, or even just do a smaller, cheaper successor to the Golden Collections.

In terms of funny, the heyday of the LT was from 1941 to 1948. 1947 would cut off most of Bob Clampett, Tex Avery and much of Chuck Jones best work.

 

[Kevin Martinez]

One other issue is that a lot of the releases, including the Golden Collections, don't list the cartoons included anywhere on the outer package. (Though the Super Stars do.) Collectors who are passionate enough to follow news of the upcoming releases on the internet will be up to speed on what's coming out, but the average consumer (i.e. their target audience) won't be. Remember all the screaming and torch-carrying that went on when the first Golden Collection came out and horrors, "One Froggy Evening" and "What's Opera Doc" weren't on it?

But EVERY one of these post-GC releases is aimed at the average consumer. Platinum Collection #1 has What's Opera Doc, Essential Bugs Bunny has it, even one of the still-in-print Spotlight Collections has it, and I've seen Wal-Mart stock it. Remember when it was easy to tell which releases were aimed at enthusiasts and which ones were aimed at Joe Sixpack?

 

[LeoA]

The average consumer probably couldn't tell you a single title from a Looney Tune/Merrie Melodies cartoon short. So I can't imagine that was much of a problem.

 

[ChrisALM]

Originally Posted by Traveling Matt
Perhaps, but what about the 360 Golden Collection cartoons? That's more than one-third of the catalog already released properly. I'm not buying that again.
Jerry Beck confirmed Volume 3 is coming. Sales would have to be really abysmal for that series to not make it a bit further, since very little work is required.
Same here. No LT release has touched my shelf since Golden Volume 6, as I wait...

I had not heard that a Volume 3 was coming . . . but I am not following the news about these Platinum Collection releases as I had been with the Golden Collections releases. For some, I am sure that is good news and I am happy for them.
I purchased the first two Super Stars releases as they were widely advertised as "new to DVD". They were not so widely advertised as being cropped. That did it for me - those are the last LTs I have purchased.
If WB would pick up LT releases from where the Golden Collections left off, I would purchase those sets. Restored cartoons on Bluray look fantastic, but so do restored cartoons on DVD. I am happy with the six volumes I have of the Golden Collections. If that is where my LT Collection ends, so be it. Now, if I could get a complete LT Collection on Bluray, I would do a double dip for them - one time. I am ready to go either way here, however, WB has no product available for someone like me.
The only exception for all of this would be the Censored 11, which I would purchase as a stand alone set.
I know there are many other ways to look at all of this. IMHO, it is really unfortunate that WB has made all of this so convoluted. We have regressed from a consumer friendly Golden Collections / Spotlight Collections set of releases to an indeterminable set of releases that seem to defy logic. For those that are satisfied with the current state of LT releases, I am happy for you. I'm just not one of them.

 

[Kevin Martinez]

Thirdly, Warners will make their decisions, that are the best, most commercially-viable decision, for them! Not for you, the hardcore Looney Tunes Collector. Not for you, the occasional-DVD-animations purchaser. Not for you, the parents of cartoon-loving kids. Pooch

Well obviously they suck at making decisions, if sets like Mouse Chronicles are bombing and the Platinum series is already in jeopardy with only the second set. And I'm confused. Aren't most of these sets aimed at the "parents of cartoon-loving kids". How much is Warner paying you for PR?