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High Resolution Audio Comparison

Discussion in 'Music' started by Lee Scoggins, Nov 19, 2002.

  1. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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    Friends,
    Please see the following links for comparisons of the new high resolution formats DVD Audio and Super Audio:
    http://www.hometheaterforum.com/Practical.doc
    http://www.hometheaterforum.com/Technical.doc
    *************************************
    To download these Word documents, please right-click on the above links, select "Save Target As" and file name. The files will then download automatically.
    *************************************
    Disclaimer!
    Please note that I tried to keep the Practical as objective as possible while Technical are notes gathered from many years as a recording engineer and a final gradation on sound quality differences.
    Please share with me your thoughts and ideas.
    I hope this will further help Forum members and visitors understand and manage the complex choices presented by the two formats.
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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    Technical difficulties [​IMG]
    Bear with us as we figure out a way to make these documents downloadable.
    Any suggestions appreciated.
     
  3. John Kotches

    John Kotches Screenwriter

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    Lee,
    Your title counts are way off for DVD-A in the Practical doc.... DVD-A is 377 or 416 depending on whether you take the Quad list title count or the Meridian sponsored list at High Fidelity Review.
    I realize that this paper goes back awhile, but if you had wanted accurate counts, you should have asked -- 230 titles might have been accurate sometime in mid 2001.
    Also, I'm not a major reviewer -- and my inclusion with people like Bob Stuart, Mark Waldrep and the others, while flattering, is not something that I have earned to date. If you want to include a "big name" reviewer use Dr. Robert E. Greene from TAS. I'm not Bob Stuart, but I'm sure he would appreciate it if you spelled the company name right, it's Meridian. Why leave off Alastair Roxburgh from Alpha Digital/EAD or John Dawson at Arcam from the DVD-A supporters list?
    As far as breakthrough titles go on DVD-Audio, HC is good, but don't forget that Fleetwood Mac's Rumours sold more copies. Then there's Queen's A Night at the Opera. These certainly deserves listing.
    The number of DVD-Audio players on the market exceeds the 20 you are listing, regardless of whether it is actively marketed players or number of players since launch.
    Currently it's
    Panasonic: 5 models
    Toshiba: 3 models
    Denon: 4 models
    Meridian: 2 models
    Pioneer: 1 (DVD-A only is what I'm counting not universal)
    EAD: 2 models
    JVC: 5 models minimum
    I haven't even hit all the players yet, and I'm stopping at 22, as I've already proven my point......
    I have also excluded HT in a Box.
    You did not mention that the noise characteristics of High-Res PCM are linear across the pass band, and ignored the rising noise characteristic of SACD, beginning at 4k.
    There are other things I don't like, but that's enough for 2:00am CDT on a first glance.
    Regards,
     
  4. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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  5. Mike Broadman

    Mike Broadman Producer

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    The links still don't work. How are you reading them, John?
     
  6. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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    Mike,

    I am still having trouble as well.

    Packy is able to access them however.
     
  7. James Q Jenkins

    James Q Jenkins Stunt Coordinator

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    Lee, no offense, but from reading your posts over the last few years it seems to me as if this would be the equivalent of a white paper comparing Mac OS X and Microsoft Windows XP presented by Steve Ballmer. [​IMG] I mean your SIG is "Super Audio: So Close It Kisses The Master Tape!" for gosh sakes.
    I can't read the links. I will do so however if I have time when they are up.
     
  8. John Kotches

    John Kotches Screenwriter

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    Lee,
     
  9. John Kotches

    John Kotches Screenwriter

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    Mike,

    I only clicked on the Practial link last night which worked.

    However if you right click on the link and select "Save Target As" you can download the documents to your machine and peruse them at your leisure.

    Regards,
     
  10. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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  11. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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    Links seem to be working fine now.

    Thanks Packy for your help!
     
  12. John Kotches

    John Kotches Screenwriter

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  13. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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  14. Jeff Kohn

    Jeff Kohn Supporting Actor

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    Links appear to be broken again, I can't download either document.
     
  15. John Kotches

    John Kotches Screenwriter

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    Lee,

    Your point of view is so balanced that you just used the Sony/Philips marketing glossies in the technical page.

    Nice job on balance there.

    Then again, it was exactly what I expected.
     
  16. Rich Malloy

    Rich Malloy Producer

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    Can someone give John a hug?
     
  17. mike_decock

    mike_decock Supporting Actor

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    I snuck a picture of John earlier today:
    Picture removed by Admin. Please do not repost.
    -Mike...
     
  18. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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    [​IMG]
    I think the links may be down from multiple hits but I could be wrong. Mine seem to work on and off.
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Jagan Seshadri

    Jagan Seshadri Supporting Actor

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    I like the documents, Lee.
    Regarding the "Practical" document:
    - I agree with mostly everything [​IMG]
    - Why is "Deficiencies in Redbook" stated as a challenge for DVD-A?
    Regarding the "Technical" document:
    - The 'cultural lock-in' to PCM is something I had trouble with, and it took a lot more than that Sony/Philips block diagram to convince this former PCM-head of the virtues of DSD. This is mainly because these kinds of diagrams tend to abstract blocks in ways that hide the nasty side and promote the advantageous side.
    - SACD is a nine and LP is a ten? Maybe upon initial playback of a very good vinyl pressing on a very good vinyl rig. Digital doesn't degrade!
    In support of SACD,
    I doubt ultrasonic noise makes a lick of difference for SACD. Ultrasonic noise that is something like -180dB in the 20Hz - 20KHz band is swamped by thermal noise in electronics that lives around -130dB anyway.
    In support of DVD-Audio,
    I understand why Class B amplifiers have some zero-crossing distortion, but why would PCM have it? I am very skeptical about that.
    Rebuttals and comments are welcome!
    -JNS
     
  20. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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