Hades froze over......Wonder Years! (1 Viewer)

[Ockeghem]

Ron,

Thanks so much for your last post. As I may have said before in a different thread, Hank Williams Sr. is my all-time favorite country artist. From an academic standpoint, I've made it my life's work to study the music of Ockeghem (my dissertation topic), J. S. Bach, and the works of Buddy Holley and the Beatles. But had I ventured into the realm of country music on a scholarly level, the works of Hank Williams would have been my first choice.

Information such as you've presented here (esp. the boldface) is priceless to me:

"A House of Gold-this take is on "Rare Demos First To Last" and is performed in a different key, minus some chord changes and has totally different lyrics."

 

[Gary OS]

This will be my last post on this topic. I'm thrilled that Time Life was able to clear the vast majority of songs. Major kudos to them for that! I won't splurge for the set right away because even the least expensive offering is too much for me right now. But I do plan on buying the season sets down the road. This is too important a 'holy grail' for me to pass up.

Having said all that, I do just want to mention that different versions of the same song can and will heavily impact scenes. The Box Tops version of "The Letter" will not work well at all with the scene in question where Kevin is trading notes with a girl he likes (not Winnie) in the back of class. The Cocker version fits perfectly, second by second, with what we see on the screen. The build ups on the piano, the spots where there are no vocals, everything from that particular version is designed to work perfectly with what we are seeing in the scene. It will be a huge step down when I come to that point in the episode and hear the different version. It won't be as bad with "There's a Kind of Hush", but it will almost assuredly take away from that scene too. I'm not sure how it couldn't. I know that particular episode very, very well and each note matches each scene perfectly. So it will be a bit of a bummer. Some episodes aren't nearly as important to me and I'll be able to accept substitutions much better. But not that episode.


Gary "nuff said - I'm not complaining in a big way, but I'm definitely disappointed that all the original artist songs in that particular ep couldn't be cleared" O.

 

[jimmyjet]

hi gary,

i am not at all disagreeing with you regarding the effects a song will have.

i prefer to keep everything original, when possible.

while i have no recall of this particular scene, i can not like a song, but still think that it does justice to the scene at the time.

as a general rule, blues can give a harder edge to a scene than a polished pop song would. i just cant stand the genre.

 

[jimmyjet]

i think the music rights people will realize that no song is irreplaceable.

and that the real value comes mostly from the video.

for those of us who have seen the show, we no doubt have our little favorites.

but for the masses who have not seen the show, these new songs will be what they know the show by.

and they no doubt will have many of the same opinions about the new songs, that we do about the original selections.

i love the herman's hermits, and kind of a hush is one my favorite songs of theirs. so even though i cant recall the scene, there is no doubt in my mind that i would prefer to have the hh version.

but if the viewer isnt really arent familiar with hh, it may make no difference to the viewer.

once all the initial sales have completed, the majority of sales down the road will probably be to those who have never seen it, but hear it is worth watching.

gosh, i am that way on tons of shows.

i know nothing about wkrp, but will probably get it at some point when it has a sale - if for no other reason than the intense support that it has from people here !!

 

[BobO'Link]

I'll be more disappointed if they had to change it but it'll be alright. I love both versions of The Letter. Stil, Gary you're right.. Cocker made everything better. Although, don't tell that to Lester Bangs or he'll just tell you that Cocker's version is just too damn long!

OK... that quote is just wrong on *so*many levels! Comparing The Box Tops to Jethro Tull is a apples to oranges comparison. Two totally different bands with totally different sounds. Even comparing The Box Tops version of "The Letter" to that from Joe Cocker is difficult as both bring something different to the table. Cocker *fits* the episode while the one from The Box Tops does not. The delivery, pacing, and tone of the Cocker version is different enough to almost call it a brand new bag.

"And while the Lennon/McCartney compositions included all look to be instrumentals you still wonder just what's up with Ringo Starr's "Back Off Boogaloo" being missing. He both wrote and performed the piece so *does* he own that one? Considering a "Beatles" performance (or part of one) is included via a Ed Sullivan Show clip it makes you wonder who owns the rights to the Sullivan stuff. Do *any* of "The Beatles" or their heirs have any control over that group of recordings?"

Howie,

I'll be interested to learn whether the Ed Sullivan clip you mention here makes it to the DVD release. If it doesn't, it won't be the first time that a Beatles clip from The Ed Sullivan Show aired during the first-run showing of a film or series and yet did not make it to the released version on DVD or VHS. One example that comes to mind is the clip included in the film, The 1960s. To this day I regret that that clip is not included on the released version. (If I had the equipment to do so I would have edited it in myself.)

The Official song listing indicates the episode "Rock 'N' Roll" has "I Want to Hold Your Hand (from The Ed Sullivan Show)" so I fully expect at least a clip from the show if not the entire performance playing in the background.

 

[jetskier]

Well, I've got to admit - I'm very impressed with the % of songs actually cleared and even more impressed that the Star-Vista people released the list of songs. Maybe it's boards like this one (and posters that question certain details ), that gets these reissue companies concerned if they don't do it right.

But, I've gotta laugh (as I'm shaking my head) - in EVERY marketing person there's ALWAYS some used-car-salesman "making it sound better than it is" gibberish, like: '...it's 401 cleared songs if you count the additional 115 "times" With A Little Help From My Friends is used'. Well, NO one wants to count those 115 repeats and THAT statement should have never been uttered - it's pure salesman BS! Yeah, so what are the copyright holders gonna say: "o.k., we'll license it for the first episode, but for no amount of money in this world will we agree to the remaining 114 episodes" - geeeez, come on!

Now, since it does appear that Star-Vista is on the right path of integrity, if they really want to impress me (and maybe a few others), they will include a bonus disc(s) of ALL the scenes in which they could not clear the music and tell us the song name and artist performance that was used in the original broadcast. These "scenes only" segments should NOT include ANY music so that we could edit in the proper music just for our own collection.
Yeah, I know, fat chance, but there sure shouldn't be anything illegal (or) cost prohibitive in doing that. I'd sure rather have those scenes than the childish Facebook / Twitter minutia (or) a lot of the other bonus "stuff" they're coming up with.

One can just take the footage with the original songs, and replace the DVD version' scenes with the original footage to truly make it look like the original broadcast.

Problem solved, and everything else on the DVD stays.

And who might have this original footage? 98% of us won't, but, I'll be your friend if YOU do.

i dont think one can compare the letter - between joe cocker and the box tops

cuz you are talking about different styles of music

i hate blues, so i seldom can stand joe cocker - having to listen to with a little help on every episode is by far the worse thing about the series for me.

whereas the boxtops are a polished pop group, which is why they had the big hit version of it. that appeals more to the masses.

Heh, Heh!, well I hate, uh, dislike the Blues also most of the time and the closest I want to hear/see Joe Cocker is John Belushi imitating him on SNL.

I first thought, well, if the Cocker camp licensed "With A Little Help...", why wouldn't they do it for "The Letter". I checked my music books and maybe, just maybe, here are 2 reasons they wouldn't. 'Song popularity' (and) 'other musicians involved'. "With A Little Help..." only made it to #68 on Billboard's Hot-100 chart, while "The Letter" made it all the way up to #7. Also, Leon Russell & the Shelter People played on "The Letter" with Cocker.
However, Jimmy Page played guitar on "With A Little Help...", but maybe he's more understanding.

Having said all that, I do just want to mention that different versions of the same song can and will heavily impact scenes. The Box Tops version of "The Letter" will not work well at all with the scene in question where Kevin is trading notes with a girl he likes (not Winnie) in the back of class. The Cocker version fits perfectly, second by second, with what we see on the screen. The build ups on the piano, the spots where there are no vocals, everything from that particular version is designed to work perfectly with what we are seeing in the scene. It will be a huge step down when I come to that point in the episode and hear the different version. It won't be as bad with "There's a Kind of Hush", but it will almost assuredly take away from that scene too. I'm not sure how it couldn't. I know that particular episode very, very well and each note matches each scene perfectly. So it will be a bit of a bummer. Some episodes aren't nearly as important to me and I'll be able to accept substitutions much better. But not that episode.

Gary "nuff said - I'm not complaining in a big way, but I'm definitely disappointed that all the original artist songs in that particular ep couldn't be cleared" O.

Yikes!, I hope we don't have to play that game with Star-Vista - them getting the right song but the wrong artist - I didn't think we'd have to deal with that. Then, on the other hand, in the case of "The Letter", would you rather it be the Box Tops (or) some unknown, studio band that, up until now, has only recorded elevator music...huuuuh?
[and BTW, I think the Box Tops are G-R-R-R-E-A-T !.....right Tony?]

 

[Ockeghem]

Somehow I feel the 'ghost' of Rex Bachmann in the house....

 

[TravisR]

Somehow I feel the 'ghost' of Rex Bachmann in the house....

What do you mean?

 

[Ockeghem]

Travis,LOL. You've got the style down! Nicely done.

 

[justegofficial]

Well, I've got to admit - I'm very impressed with the % of songs actually cleared and even more impressed that the Star-Vista people released the list of songs. Maybe it's boards like this one (and posters that question certain details ), that gets these reissue companies concerned if they don't do it right.

I think their release of the Mama's Family complete series set had a lot to do with this, too. When they first released it, there was a lot of information we fans didn't know about the set ahead of time - like syndicated episodes being included, several Harvey Korman intros seemingly missing and music edits (some which were handled very badly in my opinion - whole or parts of scenes were just cut out regardless of continuity). We were completely in the dark about all of it and had to figure everything out ourselves once we got the set in our hands. I'll admit that I (and many other fans I'm sure) bugged the fu- messaged Time Life/Starvista on several occasions, inquiring about the problems with the set. I think the way they handled the Wonder Years set (allowing fans to sign up to get updates throughout the entire progress of the set, releasing the music list, etc...) was a direct result of the sh- crap we all put them through with Mama's Family (or I like to think so).

 

[The Obsolete Man]

Here's your list of uncleared songs.

http://tvshowsondvd.com/news/Wonder-Years-The-Complete-Series/20182

I like the idea of soundalikes better than other random songs, myself.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Thanks for the link to that list, Robert!

 

[Vahan_Nisanain]

I do not see the Jeopardy! theme mentioned. Were they able to clear it after all?

 

[Mike Frezon]

I do not see the Jeopardy! theme mentioned. Were they able to clear it after all?

Right. It was the Jeopardy "think music" that had been mentioned before.

I'm hoping it's exclusion from the TVShowsonDVD list is a good sign.

 

[David Weicker]

Right. It was the Jeopardy "think music" that had been mentioned before.I'm hoping it's exclusion from the TVShowsonDVD list is a good sign.

The two lists provided are songs that were cleared (or not cleared).Maybe it's not categorized as a song, so it's status just wasn't mentioned - either way.What's interesting about this latest news is the non-mention of the supposed swap of the two versions of The Letter

 

[The Obsolete Man]

The two lists provided are songs that were cleared (or not cleared).Maybe it's not categorized as a song, so it's status just wasn't mentioned - either way.What's interesting about this latest news is the non-mention of the supposed swap of the two versions of The Letter

We don't know yet there was a swap. Might have just been a screw-up on the cleared list.

And that was my first thought when theme songs were mentioned... they weren't mentioned because they're TV themes.

 

[Powell&Pressburger]

So it sounds like They only mentioned songs NOT cleared but no mention of TV music such as TV show theme songs heard during the show? Honestly I would think those would be easier to clear just because with all the TV show theme song CDs over the years. I wonder with the Doors and Neil Young tracks if it was the amount of money they wanted for the licensing or if it wasn't even open for discussion. The Doors tracks IMO were iconic with the time and felt so fitting. I will still want to buy the set but I will have to blast my own copies of those doors tracks during the scenes.

 

[jimmyjet]

gosh, it seems as though they did an excellent job of putting this together.

and that both sides for the most part were able to see the light of day - something is better than nothing !!

 

[Gary OS]

So it sounds like They only mentioned songs NOT cleared but no mention of TV music such as TV show theme songs heard during the show?

Not only that, but they didn't mention when different versions of songs are being used. I'll still be getting the set, and I'm still happy with how much music they cleared. But I personally think simply clearing a song, but using a different artist's rendition, isn't small potatoes.


Gary "just saying" O.

 

[cafink]

I'm actually pretty confused about that. There are at least a couple of songs on the "cleared songs" list (like A Kind of Hush and The Letter) that explicitly list artists different than the original, but then there are other songs that are on the "replaced songs" list (like the Blood, Sweat & Tears songs) as using a replacement version by a different artist. If the listings for the former really mean that they just licensed a different recording of the song by a different artist, then I don't understand why some replaced songs are on one list while some are on the other.