CONSOLIDATED LOTR:FOTR Extended Ed. Problem Thread; Please Post ALL Problem Reports Here! (1 Viewer)

[Sean Laughter]

Jeffrey,

I think many people would agree that there does appear to be a bass difference between the two tracks, but to say this,

I think the above is enough to get my point across. Would you still say a problem with the disk is unlikely?

seems rather ridiculous. I've listened to both and agree with most that while DTS doesn't seem as loud as DD I also think it sounds more accurate and not quite as "cooked for effect" or whatever you want to call it. So I wouldn't say it is a "Jurassic Park like" DTS bass issue. If you think it might be a problem with your particular disc feel free to return it for another and see if that solves your problem.

 

[Michael Reuben]

So I wouldn't say it is a "Jurassic Park like" DTS bass issue.

There's another important difference between this situation and Jurassic Park. JP had separate DTS and DD 5.1 releases. When there was a problem with the DTS version, people with that disc had no alternative for a 5.1 track. With LOTR:FOTR EE, both tracks are on the same disc. If someone feels that the DTS track is somehow lacking, the solution is simple: Play the DD track.
M.

 

[Aaron Silverman]

that the bass on the EE DTS track is "wall shakingly loud" (which was my experience as well).

Well, mine shakes the walls too, when I crank up the volume!!!
I don't think it's a *problem* with the disc, I believe it's just a *different* mix. I haven't had a chance to watch it again to determine which mix I prefer.

 

[JeffreyMercado]

Alright, I guess I need to listen to the whole movie on DTS. I just always prefer the DTS track on my movies and this seems to be the exception to the rule. I will be the first to admit that the details on the highs sound better. But I guess I was expecting the DTS track to have louder, cleaner, bass than the DD as is usually the case with all my other DTS movies. Accurate reproduction on highs definately goes to DTS but I just feel the bass is lacking in the beginning. Let me watch the whole movie to see if it gets better as the movie goes along.

 

[Paul E. Fox II]

Michael,
In you system, do both LFE tracks sound similar enough for you that one is preferable to the other (to the membership: Please-DO NOT ATTEMPT to turn this into a DD versus DTS debate, that's been done enough).
I swear, the DD track just sounds too boomy and while I don't consider myself to be a professional when it comes to calibration, I have calibrated my system to the best of my ability using both AVIA and Video Essentials. I do consider the DTS tracks to be preferable on a normal basis and the more I listen to this new cut of Fellowship of the Rings, I still think I prefer the DTS track as well. I guess I'm just trying to verify the Mix versus Problem Disc thing.
At any rate, I don't think there is ANYTHING *wrong* with either track now, they're just different.

 

[Michael Reuben]

In you system, do both LFE tracks sound similar enough for you that one is preferable to the other

That's hard for me to say. I've only watched the film straight through one time, and that was with the DTS track. When this issue first arose, I put the early battle scene on A/B repeat and alternated between both tracks. I had to do it several times, because my Lexicon lets me make separate tweaks for DTS and DD 5.1, which I sometimes forget that I've done, and those had to be neutralized to make sure they weren't creating any differences.

In the end, I think I prefer the DTS track by a hair. Its bass wasn't louder but it seemed a bit "tighter" (which I guess is the same as "less boomy"). But it was truly a minute difference, and I don't think I would have noticed it but for the fact that I was specifically listening for it.

M.

 

[jeff lam]

IMO, I think everyone is just commenting on the DTS track having low bass levels because the original theatrical version was so overcooked that we got used to the heavy bass on that version and we were expecting the same but even better with the DTS track. This is obviously not the case. I feel DTS did a wonderful job on the track, sure it may be a little less bass heavy than the DD track but that does not mean there is something wrong with it. It's just we have had such an overcooked track to compare it to that it seems "off" for some reason but in reality it is right "on".

 

[Brent Hutto]

Well, my few minutes of experimentation proved to my own satisfaction that any LFE differences were in the range of "preference" as opposed to "something wrong with" one or the other. I think that's what you're asking.

When we watched the movie last night it was with the DTS all the way through (except for about 2 minutes near the beginning, just for comparison purposes) and thought it sounded wonderful. There was certainly never a sense of not enough bass oomph in the soundtrack. If you have DTS capability, I'd recommend using it on this movie without reservation.

 

[Paul E. Fox II]

Like I said, I'm thinking the fact that the first release and apparently the DD track on the Extended Edition is SO heavy, everyone is just presuming that there is *something wrong* with the DTS track.
I believe the DTS track to be, as Michael described it, very tight indeed and find that one to be the one I like better. Even on the original release when I watch Fellowship the first time, I thought the LFE track was way too bloated, but that's what I've gotten used to.
Cool, now I can just relax and enjoy this fine film as I hope all of you can!

 

[Wayne Bundrick]

Both tracks are good, but my personal perception is that the DD Track is just "Overblown or Boomy". The DTS track is great and the LFE is there, just more subtle in the mix. The transients on Sauron's footsteps, the ring hitting the ground, and the Helmet Drop scene just don't sound as bloated (for want of a better word).

Right on. In the DD track, when Sauron's finger hits the ground it is with a bloated boomy thud as if Sauron's finger weighed a ton. In the DTS, the thud is still there, still exaggerated, only now not ridiculously so.

It's interesting to hear that now some people aren't so fond of the DD on the theatrical DVD. I never liked it and I blamed Mi Casa for juicing up the soundtrack for mass home consumption, and I got pooh-poohed by some who said Mi Casa's DVD soundtracks are the most highly regarded. I don't hold them in such high regard and I don't particularly approve of some things Mi Casa's folks have said on record, such as their cavalier disregard for standard reference level and headroom.

I prefer the DTS track here. I'm not sure which one most faithfully reproduces Mi Casa's juiced soundtrack. Maybe there's some mistake in the DTS track which partially negates the juice. Or, perhaps Mi Casa realized a correlation between people who object to juiced up soundtracks and people who are equipped for DTS and make the effort to seek the DTS track from the menu, and they used a lighter touch on the juice for the DTS track.

My setup: Sony NS-300 DVD player, Denon 5700 receiver, Atlantic Technology 350THX speakers & subs.

 

[Steve Schaffer]

I've played about an hour of the new release in DTS, and have only the old theatrical release as comparison as I haven't tried the DD track on the new one.

According to AVIA, reference sound level on my reciever is acheived with the volume set at -27db. With the theatrical release all the sound was way too loud at that setting with very boomy bass. I had to turn the volume control down to about -35db to get the same volume level as with most other discs, but the bass was still somewhat overblown. I got the same results with Blade II, another disc with Mi Casa sound mastering.

With the new disc's DTS track I still can't use -27 on the receiver as a volume setting, more like -32. As far as bass goes, I don't hear as much as with the old DD track but I feel a lot more. This would indicate that the low bass is tighter and louder but the upper bass is more subdued. The rest of the sound track is smoother and more defined, with better dialogue intelligibility.

My overall impression is that the sound is still a bit cooked but not to the extreme it was in the original release.

My Sony 333ES receiver does a phantom rear center channel when set to 6.1 channel decoding and the effect is quite noticeable on discs with 6.1 soundtracks. This has added considerably to the surround effects on the new track vs the old one.

 

[John Berggren]

I am also missing my theater ticket in the gift set. Is this an item that can have it's own thread? I've seen it crop up a bit here. Does anyone have any advice on how to rectify?

 

[Pete_w]

My problem is that the disc labeled part one is actually part two and the disc labeled part two is also part 2...ie...2 part twos and no part one. Anybody else have this happen. Back to the Future Shop on Monday.

 

[Brent Hutto]

My idea is that Mi Casa realized that they had overdone their usual "cooking" approach on the Theatrical Edition and, given a second bite from the apple, kept it within reason on the Extended Edition. From my limited listening to the Dolby track on the EE, it is like the DTS track in that it sounds closer to a conventional reference level and not as severely compressed.

I find very little to criticize in the DTS track on the Extended Edition. I believe it was also done at Mi Casa and they've done a wonderful job. Actually, my one complaint is that Viggo tends to mumble and when there's music going on I miss the occasional word. But that's hardly the sound mixer's fault alone.

 

[Paul E. Fox II]

Now that I've watched the EE all the way through once with the DTS track I can tell you this: My ears hear PLENTY of LFE, just not the BOOMY, ECHOEY LFE that I remember from the Theatrical Edition. I like it MUCH better.
As far as I can tell, the problem is solved...the DD Track is just Overproduced to the extreme. Your results may, as they say, vary!

 

[BrettisMckinney]

Dont know if this has been discussed,but i heard from a reviewer that the DTS track is actually 4db less than the DD which he thought was very strange as the DTS is usually always louder. This could be why ppl switching on the fly think the DD has more bass. If you turn up the DTS to compensate it might be the same.

 

[JohnDG]

A few observations on the DTS track:

1) No hiccups. Using a Toshiba 2109.

2) I personally think DTS is a better mix (after hearing the theatrical release a number of times).

3) I also had the impression that the cave troll footsteps were more pronounced in the DTS version than the DD version, which makes me think that they defintely re-mixed it.

BTW: I'm using an SVS 16-46PCi calibrated.

jdg

 

[Jay Sylvester]

I agree with your cave troll steps comment. There are moments in the DTS track that seem more pronounced over the theatrical mix, but not in a boomy or pushy way. Just tight and controlled.

 

[Stephen Orr]

My disc 1 freezes for 5 seconds when Frodo and Sam come upon the wood elves. It even does it in reverse! Weird, but I am playing it on an Apex 3201.

 

[AaronMK]

I found nothing wrong with the DTS mix.

I prefer bass to integrate smoothly into the sound track rather than the "thump and rumble" effect that seems to so easily impress people. I watched straight through on the DTS track last night. Unless my senses are fooling me, the DTS track had a ton of bass that was very prominent yet also well integrated into the track.

I compared the prologue and troll scenes, and the bass on DD track seemed more like a seperete entity. Maybe it was louder and therefore drew excessive attention to itself, or maybe nuances that helped bridge the gap were lost.