Apple iPhone 5S/5C Event: Everything You Need To Know (2 Viewers)

[KeithAP]

A no contract 5C 32GB/64GB is $549/$649. I thought the buzz on this phone was that it was going to be cheaper for markets where phone subsidies generally don't exist? Guess those rumors were incorrect.

I look forward to seeing how the new phones perform although there is nothing here to switch me back from the Android ecosystem

 

[Sam Posten]

I've never considered this before. But I'm kinda interested in upgrading from my iPhone 5 to the 5s

Lemme know what you find out. I am locked in at $346 with Amazon credit earlier this month. I put my quality at Good not perfect because the paint on the chamfers has scraped off. Ron must have put perfect quality to get $360 if he only locked in a few days ago. I believe a lot of folks who claim perfect are going to get bumped down to good because of the paint situation. Perhaps I was naive for not putting it at perfect and having them deny it. I am probably going to pass and wait for the next one and just get the iPad I'm hoping will drop in November, but we'll see.

But the iPhone5 camera in comparison to the Galaxy 3 or the Nokia 1020 is just short of junk.

And I'm the one talking like a fanboy?

Yeah, no. This is not the purpose of a high MP at all. You don't get 41MP and just have a flat 41MP. Most 24 and 41MP save already as a 10/12MP rate, they use pixel oversampling to verify color and avoid rainbow, as well as to increase light sensitivity.

Ugh, downrezzing. How droll. =p

Unlike just boosting MP by just boosting MP, they capture the native output of an optical lens rate in order to get a higher quality source to sample.. FYI, this is the same method that RED and others use in their 4K camera stream systems.

Yeah cause there is obviously the same quality effect on a $20k Red Dragon and a camera phone. Anyway, yeah no. Have fun with the pixel peeping tho!

Samsung's next will feature Wireless AC.. and Apple is still Nx1.

Which almost nobody has in their home. And N works just fine, don't think this will be a big differentiator. Nice to have for sure, and I'd appreciate it, but it's not a go/no go line item.

Air Drop, frankly, sucks. I mean, come on.. most people end up using DropBox with a connector VS airdrop.

Air drop isn't even in consumers hands on mobile yet Matt. Cmon man. Have you even tried it yet? Doesn't sound like it. If you are thinking Drop box again you aren't talking about real average users. You are talking business folks or tech heads.

Apple hasn't provided a larger size screen, so it's still the same long body as the 5, which is a kind of neither fish nor foul compared to it's competitors.

Ah that old chestnut. I wonder what the rally cry will be when Apple does put out a larger phone?

 

[mattCR]

Sam, we'll just agree to disagree. The way that the downward handling of resolution works in both the Galaxy S4 and the Nokia 1020 has been pretty widely praised by almost all tech journals online. That's just a fact. It takes you about 10 minutes of google searches with comparisons for almost every site you can find (from phonearena to engadget to BGR) to pretty much come up with that. It's just the way it is.

Now, it's easy to say "what a fan boy" but considering I own 3 Apple devices in my house, a set of iPads, and I administer a network that supports 120 iPhones, it's not as though I hate the things. Frankly, the iPhone4S was, at the time, lightyears ahead of it's competition.

But we have reached a point where Apple isn't really providing the kind of thing that makes me think: this is the wild innovation that totally changes the market. I'll have to check to see if it's doing auto-email and text to bluetooth in a car yet, as it doesn't on the iphone5's (not s, just 5) in our group.. and that is also a nice touch.

At the same time, there are simple things that Apple does that does bother me. a 32Gb iPhone 5S is $100 more then a 16Gb. You have to be kidding me. I can go buy a 120Gb SSD in a 1-off at a store for $95, and you're telling me adding 16Gb of memory adds $100 in cost?

My apologies on Air Drop, I was thinking iCloud Stream.. so that's a confusion on my part

Ah that old chestnut. I wonder what the rally cry will be when Apple does put out a larger phone?

Probably none, because there are a whole lot of people who love their iPhones who just want one with a larger screen, who would leap on it in a heartbeat. My wife, who's now nearing blindness due to multiple astigmatisms would love to trade her iPhone4S for a larger iPhone.. and the lure of a much larger phone grows more attractive. Yes, that's the old-folk reasoning, but I admit, I have to support those people too.
I think a lot of people will like the 5S. I'm just not finding a lot of monstrously compelling stuff here. The move to 64 bit is a potentially big one, but again, most of the apps are likely to remain 32bit in order to be multi-device compatible, which means they will run in a segment on the 5S, not really getting full boost potential. (Even the 5C is not 64bit so..)

I think the last really "great" apple release was the 4S, which was an awesome device that really is probably the best phone they've ever released. This is nice upgrade, but it's not a revolutionary one, and it puts them basically on par, and in some areas behind it's competitors, a postiiton apple isn't used to.

And, apparently part of the market agrees with me.. as a day when the NASDAQ rallied, Apple did not.

 

[Sam Posten]

There's a big difference between saying something is not compelling FOR YOU and saying it's not compelling for customers at large, trust me this is something that I get accused of all the time Matt. I think it's a hell of a 1-2 punch, just enough to get tech savvy folks to upgrade and a platform to build on for wider market place growth. We'll see.

And give Air drop a shot, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Sam Posten]

...

Keynote Event Now Available to View in its Entirety

Missed that, thanks Ron.

 

[mattCR]

There's a big difference between saying something is not compelling FOR YOU and saying it's not compelling for customers at large, trust me this is something that I get accused of all the time Matt. I think it's a hell of a 1-2 punch, just enough to get tech savvy folks to upgrade and a platform to build on for wider market place growth. We'll see.And give Air drop a shot, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

I think that's fair. We all judge by ourselves. I should say: I don't see a compelling reason for people who are currently carrying an s4 or a lumia 1020 to want to switch. Apples biggest bet is the ecosphere. They keep large swaths of customers who have real investments in app libraries etc. that will never change.

 

[KeithAP]

I forgot to ask, will Siri be officially out of beta with iOS 7?

-Keith

 

[mattCR]

I just had a manager ask if our MDM would capture fingerprints. It's an interesting thought.. I'm sure it could prevent use, nut if it could capture them...

 

[Towergrove]

I like the new color iphones but dont most people just cover them up anyway with a case, thus eliminating ever seeing most of the phone in all its beauty???

 

[Steve Tannehill]

Did you see the Apple cases that are being sold with the 5C? Patterns of circles on the back, exposing the 5C's shell.

 

[Nelson Au]

It looks like if the 5s is exactly the same externally as the 5, the leather case would fit a 5. I was surprised to see those 5s cases presented today. I'll have to check them out. I may just wait till the iPhone 6.

 

[DaveF]

I've had a quick look at Apple.com and got the gist of the new hardware and pricing. My wife watched the keynote and gave me a running synopsis of key new details. The fingerprint reader is blowing my mind. I'm not a sensor guy, but I know a tiny bit and I do optics. I'm gobsmacked by this tiny little, high-res sensor integrated with secure image processing. Just...bam!...magic. Not enthused about colors. Too pastel. I like primary. I'll probably get a 32 GB 5S and my wife the 32 GB 5C. I was expecting from rumors that everything would be $100 cheaper. So my planning is off and doubt I'll be able to get up to a 64 GB model.Very curious if speed increase claims are real. Other speculations I read were that speed increase would be minimal. But Apple claims 50% jump. Huge. Infinity Blade 3...I'm halfway done with the original. I've got 2 and have never launched it. Now there's 3 in a few weeks. Sigh.

 

[DaveF]

On camera: the proof will be in the pudding. I don't know what to make of Matt's comments. What I've read, particularly from Andy Ihnatko, is that the iPhone 5 camera output is basically as good or better than everything else. And he's a switcher to Android. More megapixels is not necessarily better. It's a trade off. Basically, in outdoors more megapixels are better. Indoors light, fewer is better. (I think it's stated most simply as: SNR goes up linearly with averaging, and goes up quadratically with decreasing pixel count)(This is not my expertise, but I know experts. They gave me a seminal paper to read on this for a different context. The principles are the same, but I don't know the specific trades for taking photos of Grand Canyon vs grandmas birthday)So we'll see. I don't know iPhone camera specs vs others. Basic numbers to compare are MP count and pixel size and f/#.

 

[Michael_K_Sr]

I'm not chasing more megapixels either. I would have been quite happy if my D600 I bought this year was only 16 megapixels instead of the 24 MP monsters it shoots (and no...I wasn't going to rob a bank to opt for a D4! ) I guess what it boils down to is I have no interest in either Android or WP8...I'm quite happy with iOS. If some other phone supposedly has a better camera or a better screen or some other bell or whistle, I don't really give a crap because I'm content with the operating system running on the phone I have.

 

[mattCR]

I'm not chasing more megapixels either. I would have been quite happy if my D600 I bought this year was only 16 megapixels instead of the 24 MP monsters it shoots (and no...I wasn't going to rob a bank to opt for a D4! ) I guess what it boils down to is I have no interest in either Android or WP8...I'm quite happy with iOS. If some other phone supposedly has a better camera or a better screen or some other bell or whistle, I don't really give a crap because I'm content with the operating system running on the phone I have.

I think this is going to be true for most people; once you are in an eco-system, you are in it, because you have a large investment in it. I admit, I came to kind of dislike the iOS ecosystem, and that will taint my view (though I still keep my Ipad4(?) I guess at this point and enjoy it a great deal.

I think chasing megapixels is a bad way to look at it; the issue most of us have is that you have to combine megapixels with CMOS image sensor.. let me reverse this a bit because there are two ways to look at it.. there are two competing theories: one is that if you hit a certain pixel size, you start to lose sharpness and gain blur, so you find a balance. Many have changed theirs up, but view somewhere in the middle as the right approach; several DSLRs etc. set theirs at 1.01 to 1.12. Apple is arguing that a big pixel means less static/noise, and the use of 1.5 is a better output. That's going to be a lot of wait and see to determine how that shakes out, because the next process in that is not just the size of the pixel, but the capture, post processing and lense phase, which will determine whether or not the big pixel concept results in very high quality, vibrant photos while reducing noise, or if they cross the line of return and people feel you get a more blurred, less focused output.

Anyway, it's a crap shoot. People go with what they like. My wife waited to see what it was going to be, and she decided to go grab a Galaxy S4 Active, while I would have preferred her get a 1020, and probably others would grab a 5S. But que sera, to each their own.

I often look at this through a different way; I think the 4/4S were game changing phones, and since then, Apple just hasn't had a game changer. The fingerprint thing is complete non-starter for me (and kind of creepy, actually, which is why most of us turn that function off on laptops that have had it for.. well, ever), but get for others it will be an attraction. The idea of paying an extra $100 for 16Gb of memory is silly when everyone else starts out with 32Gb, and hell, 120Gb SSDs are available locally for less then $100, so I can't figure out how Apple comes up with a $100 difference between the two phones... I also love the concept of a pure 64bit OS, but since the 5S only has 1Gb of System Memory, the best purposes of 64 bit (memory page mangement and frame management) are choked to all heck, so I'm eager to see how that pays off.

But, as Sam said.. and he'll bash me for it.. the biggest factor is we both left the iOS sphere because we wanted a bigger phone. If Apple had come out with a larger phone, my wife would have grabbed that, right away.. that was the plan. But she'll be happy with her S4.

I, on the other hand, will await iOS7 on the Ipad, and we'll see where that goes.. the iPad, to me, stands apart as a truly fantastic value device... and I'll probably upgrade right away (though yes, I also keep a Nexus, a Kindle Fire HD and a Surface, so I'm like that)

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Probably none, because there are a whole lot of people who love their iPhones who just want one with a larger screen, who would leap on it in a heartbeat.

I have been trying very hard not to bring Android into this discussion,
because let's face it...this is Apple's big day and I think that they and
their iPhone fan base should be very proud.

I have to agree with Matt. Apple lost a lot of its iPhone users to Samsung
because of screen size. I cannot begin to tell you what an amazing
experience it is for me to be able to read a phone on a large screen instead
of squinting at what has been Apple's standard screen size (with slight variation)
has been for the past 6+ years.

Go to any Android forum and read the countless posts by new owners who
switched from iPhone to Android solely based on screen size.

I understand Apple is working with a prototype 6" display iPhone. Whether
it will come to fruition next year is anyone's guess, but it shows that the
company is concerned about recapturing the users they have lost.

Count me in as someone who will also come back to the iPhone in a heartbeat
should a larger phone be released. I believe it will happen, no matter how many
people continue to say it's against Apple's philosophy. There is no way Apple is
going to continue this design moving forward when other phone companies have
moved away from smaller screens. And, yes, I believe the company will continue
to make smaller phones for those that are content with their current design.

So, take note iPhone fans who think I am here to trash this phone. I am not.

I love Android phones. I like iOS better (despite its lack of customization), mainly
for its integration with my other Apple products.

Congrats to Apple on this announcement. It really had me thinking last night whether
I should go back to the iPhone this year rather than upgrade to the Note III. In the
end, I have decided to wait it out one more year.

 

[Tim Gerdes]

I wasn't planning on upgrading this cycle, but after yesterday's announcement I went over to Gazelle and locked in a quote that will basically upgrade my 4s to a new 5s for free (albeit with a 2-year contact, but it's not as if I'm going to move my cell service).

Happily surprised to see that I can still get decent trade in value on a phone that is now free with contract.

Very excited to see how the fingerprint ID stuff works. And though my primary camera is still the Canon 5D, happy to see what I can do with the new 5s in low light conditions, which seem to be the only time I ever need to use the phone's camera.

 

[Carlo_M]

My two-year plan cycle (which used to be about 18 months but now the carriers have tightened up the rules) now has me on pace to upgrade on the major number revisions (assuming Apple keeps the "S" distinction going every other update). So I'll be in the market for iPhone 6. I'm of two minds regarding a larger screen. Yes it would be nice to have a larger screen to reduce squinting. But at the same time I'm completely cognizant that I'll have to carry around a larger device in order to get that. The current iPhone 5 size I have is just comfortable enough so that I don't mind carrying it. years ago I had a larger phone and it bugged me to no end to carry that thing.

Apple's Next Big Thing (or One More Thing as Jobs used to say) needs to be a phone that defies the laws of physics. Feels like a 4" phone in your pocket and looks like a 6" phone in your hand when you're using it.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Apple's Next Big Thing (or One More Thing as Jobs used to say) needs to be a phone that defies the laws of physics. Feels like a 4" phone in your pocket and looks like a 6" phone in your hand when you're using it.

Apple's THAT good, Carlos. Watch for it in 2015.

 

[Carlo_M]

Thank goodness HTF is a classy forum. I just re-read my post that you quoted Mike and there are a lot of ways that last sentence can be...made into an inappropriate and tasteless joke.