A Few Words About A few words about...™ West Side Story -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Charles Smith]

At the quick "correction" (I guess I can call it that?) from green to blue, it's as though you can see someone thinking "oops" and turning the knob the rest of the way to get it right.

 

[haineshisway]

The green bit on the last DVD was a mistake and as bad as the fade out/fade in. Red to blue - and that's the other thing - the red isn't really red in the Blu-ray - it's more orange. My memory is that it was VERY red in the roadshow prints, just as that music is red-hot. My first thought when I saw the fade out was that they were trying to hide the green, but I really don't see how that can be a problem on the original negative.

 

How hard would it be to digitally tint the screen red and then dissolve to blue?

 

[CMNash]

The more and more I think about it, the red during the 'Mambo' section of the Overture was a deep 'fire-engine' red in the CBS/FOX VHS videos.

 

[CMNash]

If they had to go that route, it wouldn't be too difficult. They have frames which are tinted red preceding the dissolve and a few frames which are tinted blue following the dissolve. One could reconstruct it then redo the dissolve. Of course it would be noticeable if one were to pay close attention to the grain in the film - either the grain would stop moving (if using a single frame capture) or a repeating pattern would occur (if looping a few frames).

 

[CMNash]

Could it be that the green is a result of an overlap of the yellow and blue (in the same place the black is appearing in the faulty version? confused.gif

Yellow + blue = green works for subtractive colour (inks and dyes). Light is additive. So wouldn't one expect red and blue to be magenta.

 

[egbert1234]

Thank you for the warning Mr. Harris but when can we expect your film restoration on blu-ray of " The Alamo"?

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by egbert1234 /t/315747/a-few-words-about-west-side-story-in-blu-ray/90#post_3865518
Thank you for the warning Mr. Harris but when can we expect your film restoration on blu-ray of " The Alamo"?

Unless things change at MGM, it may not occur.

 

[Marc Martin]

After looking around on YouTube, I found the overture from a laserdisc
release:

Presumably this is how it is supposed to look? (from red to blue).
The HD version is actually pretty close to this - if not identical?
Certainly more accurate than the DVD.
Marc

 

[Khai L]

I'm totally confused. I just saw this vide on youtube of the overture, and the transition to the West Side Story credit is totally different.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4YpibbJFoM&feature=related
In yours from the LD, it goes from red to blue with a brief fade to almost black in between.
In the one that I posted, it goes from green to blue with no fade out at all.
So which one is the correct version????

 

[Khai L]

Ooops, should read previous posts before I post. I think others have posted my same video from youtube. Sorry about doubling up.

 

[Robert Harris]

A note regarding the discussion of what some are describing as "judder" in the opening aerial shots. I've spoken with someone who has projected the film numerous times in 70mm and a bit of helicopter "bounce," as he describes it in inherent in the original. I'm not certain if there may be some other minor problem, but regardless, this is still nothing of great concern.

RAH

 

[CMNash]

A note regarding the discussion of what some are describing as "judder" in the opening aerial shots.  I've spoken with someone who has projected the film numerous times in 70mm and a bit of helicopter "bounce," as he describes it in inherent in the original.  I'm not certain if there may be some other minor problem, but regardless, this is still nothing of great concern.
RAH

I believe in a commentary or an interview, Robert Wise commented on the difficulty of doing this aerial shot since the cameras -- at the time -- didn't have gyroscopes. This had all changed by the time he began to film the aerial shots for the Sound of Music. I'll have to track that down.

 

[WilliamMcK]

Comparing the HDNet clip to the DVD clip it looks to me as if the fade to black *replaces* the shift to green (they occur at precisely the same musical moment). The HDNet clip also has that "fire engine" red look that an earlier poster mentioned (the DVD has the orange). Makes me wonder if somebody knew the green was incorrect and somehow thought the the transfer could get by with the fade. I wish I could see the LD version -- when I click on the link I get a message that the clip is for private viewing only.
I canceled my pre-order, but I'm seriously thinking about placing it again. I don't like the fade, but it seems preferable to me than the shift to green right before the blue (and frankly, I wasn't aware of it before this issue was raised). Whatever my decision, I think it's terrific that the issue is being raised. The companies involved should be held accountable for faulty work.

 

[Will Krupp]

Originally Posted by Mike Frezon /t/315747/a-few-words-about-west-side-story-in-blu-ray/90#post_3865407
Hmmmmm.

Could it be that the green is a result of an overlap of the yellow and blue (in the same place the black is appearing in the faulty version?

I learned all about this color stuff when I was very young!

I hate to quibble, but I must because it drives me nuts every time somebody says yellow and blue = green (sorry in advance!)

It's CYAN (blue + green) and YELLOW (red + green) that yields GREEN. Cyan blocks red and yellow blocks blue; leaving green as the only primary that's left for the eye to see. If you were to mix BLUE (which blocks red and green) and YELLOW (which blocks blue) you would get BLACK (because all of the primaries are blocked.)

 

[Will Krupp]

Yellow + blue = green works for subtractive colour (inks and dyes). Light is additive. So wouldn't one expect red and blue to be magenta.

Yes, but yellow (red + green) and blue would be white (red + blue + green) in an additive system.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Originally Posted by Will Krupp /t/315747/a-few-words-about-west-side-story-in-blu-ray/90#post_3865801
I hate to quibble, but I must because it drives me nuts every time somebody says yellow and blue = green (sorry in advance!)

Oh, no problem Will.

As long as you don't mind shaking the very core of the foundation of everything I learned in books as a child...

 

[haineshisway]

Just to be clear with what I'm seeing in the aerial shots - it's not what people are calling "judder" - and it's not the airplane bouncing or not being stable. It's "shimmering" or what some here call "moire" - where buildings take on a life of their own - maybe it's not noticeable to some, but I sure noticed it all throughout that sequence - someone said it had something to do with the downconversion to 1080p but I don't know enough about that to know - all I know is it's there and it really should not have been doing it. I totally understand airplane movement and that stuff, but this is not that, at least to my eyes.

 

[Marc Martin]

Just to be clear with what I'm seeing in the aerial shots - it's not what people are calling "judder" - and it's not the airplane bouncing or not being stable. It's "shimmering" or what some here call "moire" - where buildings take on a life of their own - maybe it's not noticeable to some, but I sure noticed it all throughout that sequence - someone said it had something to do with the downconversion to 1080p but I don't know enough about that to know - all I know is it's there and it really should not have been doing it. I totally understand airplane movement and that stuff, but this is not that, at least to my eyes.

I don't see this on the HDnet version -- are you referring to the entire arial sequence, or just particular shots? And if it's just particular shots, which ones?
Anyway, I've just ordered the UK Blu-ray, so I'll see if the Bluray is different from what I've been watching for years. Also ordered a bargain-basement laserdisc to get another datapoint on how that red-to-blue transition should really look...

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by Marc Martin /t/315747/a-few-words-about-west-side-story-in-blu-ray/90#post_3865837
I don't see this on the HDnet version -- are you referring to the entire arial sequence, or just particular shots? And if it's just particular shots, which ones?
Anyway, I've just ordered the UK Blu-ray, so I'll see if the Bluray is different from what I've been watching for years. Also ordered a bargain-basement laserdisc to get another datapoint on how that red-to-blue transition should really look...

The color transitions as seen in the various video incarnations are irrelevant. The only hero is a 1961 dye transfer print.

RAH